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UpstateMike
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| Posted: November 12 2006 at 13:42 | IP Logged
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I'm running 1.03.4.9 and I cannot add or delete links. Changes show up OK in Insteon explorer, i.e. "Flagged Delete" but nothing ever gets added to pending operations. Went to KPL config and it pulled down the info for a keypad just fine so I know communications is OK.
I made sure I hit SAVE, made sure everything under PLC settings was checked, reinitialized PH, shutdown and restarted PH... What else can I try to get the link changes into the pending operations queue?
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UpstateMike
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| Posted: November 12 2006 at 18:54 | IP Logged
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I give up! No matter what I do, I can't get link create or delete actions into the operations queues. They just sit there in permanent "flagged" mode!
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Lazyman
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| Posted: November 12 2006 at 20:21 | IP Logged
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I am having the same problem.
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snowjay
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| Posted: November 12 2006 at 20:40 | IP Logged
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Sound like the problem I was having. I uninstalled and reinstalled and it all came to life.
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dhoward
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| Posted: November 13 2006 at 16:17 | IP Logged
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Mike and Lazyman.
If the links show up as FLAGGED CREATE and FLAGGED DELETE but won't move to the Pending Operations window then most likely they are either not flagged as "Active" or have been flagged as "Failed Match". Both of these can be fixed in the "Device Maint" tab.
There is a bug in the phupg.exe that is not properly setting some values in the 1.03.4.9 version pertaining to the Insteon DM controller. This will be evidenced by a 0, negative, or blank value in the Max Failures box on the Insteon Explorer screen (this will definately make every device appear as failed). You can fix this by either deleting and recreating the Insteon DM controller (Setup|Controllers) or by downloading and running the patched phupg.exe on the downloads page (you'll be performing a rebuild since you've already upgraded).
This should take care of the problem. Let me know if this fixes you or not.
Thanks,
Dave.
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UpstateMike
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| Posted: November 14 2006 at 00:01 | IP Logged
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I deleted and recreated the DM Controller (simplest option) and that fixed it, Thanks!
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Lazyman
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| Posted: November 02 2007 at 14:32 | IP Logged
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I am having this same problem again. I am also getting repeated communication failures. Is the best course still to delete and recreate the Powerlinc Controller? Is there anything to that other than to delete it in the devices tab and then recreate it? Are there links that need to be downloaded to it?
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UpstateMike
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| Posted: November 02 2007 at 21:50 | IP Logged
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I assume you unplugged the PLC for a minute right? (I only ask because I had to do that just the other day)
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dhoward
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| Posted: November 04 2007 at 16:04 | IP Logged
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Lazyman,
Deleting and recreating the PowerLinc in the Devices tab should have no effect. The first thing that I would try is like Mike suggests, unpluggin the PLC (from the wall) for a few seconds and then plugging it back in. I would even try a hard reset on the PLC. Next, I would open the Insteon Explorer and set the "Poll Interval" to 0 and tab off of the field (to make sure that PowerHome is attempting anything in the background). Then go through the standard PLC prep on the Setup tab. Download the Core App, Clear the PLC database, and Add ID's to PLC (min). Start the Poll Interval back up and see if it's working better. If you're getting alot of red NAK's in the SDM log after trying this, then you may have a bad Insteon device messing with communications or noise on the line. If device to device communications seem to be working, then it may be problems with the actual PLC or the outlet that the PLC is plugged into.
Let us know how it goes,
Dave.
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Lazyman
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| Posted: November 05 2007 at 13:04 | IP Logged
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I unplug and replug on a regular basis. That does not solve this issue.
I did the standard PLC prep, and unselected everything from the Insteon Explorer (status scan, PLC Group Cleanup, Level/Ramp/X10scan, Update on ACK, Write Level/ Allow link spidering, and link scan). That way there were no pending operations.
Then I went through each link and deleted those that were either not found or stuck in create link mode, or similar problem, and recreated them all. That worked great and everything was good.
I then went back a reselected the defaults for the Insteon Explorer. Powerhome went back to checking my verified links, could not do so, and I had the same mess again.
I think everything is now working (I did a manual clean-up again), but one of the Insteon Explorer functions sends me back into relinking hell. Am I missing anything by not running those functions? Any idea what the problems is?
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dhoward
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| Posted: November 05 2007 at 13:57 | IP Logged
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Lazyman,
It sounds as if you may be having communication problems. If you've got links that are stuck at "FLAGGED CREATE" and they never appear in the Pending Operations window, that means that the Poll Interval is either at 0, the devices are flagged as disabled, or (most likely), they've been flagged as COMM Failed. You can quickly find these devices in the Insteon Explorer on the "Devices" tab. Press the Save/Refresh button to retrieve the latest info and if you see any lines with a reddish background in the "Clear Failed" column, that means that PowerHome has flagged the device as failed due to communication issues. You can clear the failure by pressing a check in the Clear Failed column (or clicking the Clear Failed heading to check/uncheck all rows) and pressing the Save/Refresh button. At this point, you should see all of the FLAGGED CREATE links appear in the pending operations window. But, if you've indeed got communication problems, they'll probably wind back up as failed.
Links that have [NOT FOUND] should be highlighted and then dragged to the "Reverify" button. After dragging to the Reverify button, press the "Save" text and PowerHome will reverify the links that were dragged. Again, if any of the 3 conditions above exist, PowerHome will not attempt to reverify the links. If after reverification, the links are still [NOT FOUND] and they are links that should be there, just click the "Rebuild" text in the Links tab. Make sure that the "Current Device" is the device that actually contains the [NOT FOUND] link information (ie, [NOT FOUND] appears in "Resp Link Status" of the Controllers window or [NOT FOUND] appears in the "Ctlr Link Status" of the Responders window). PowerHome will then rebuild all of the links for the "Current Device" (assuming that the 3 conditions above are met).
It sounds as if most of your problems come about when PowerHome is scanning links. If "Link Scan" is checked, PowerHome will do this anytime it detects a change in the remote devices database flag. The database flag is scanned if "Status Scan" is checked. The database flag is changed anytime a change occurs to a remote device's database such as creating a link, modifying a link, or deleting a link either through software or manually via tap-tap. So, any device that you recreate a link in, will eventually have it's entire database scanned if you've got both "Status Scan" and "Link Scan" enabled. If problems are occurring during the link scan, then you most likely have Insteon communication issues and the devices are being flagged as failed. As long as you've done the clear PLC database and added ID's to PLC, then any reported communication failures should be considered as real.
HTH,
Dave.
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Lazyman
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| Posted: November 05 2007 at 14:10 | IP Logged
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Thanks fore your quick response. We have sort of been through this together already.
I do not have an Comm failed devices although I get them on a regular basis. (I clear them, unplug the PLC for 10 seconds, and restart the computer. That gets me running again for a while).
Let's assume I am having Insteon communication issues, what do I do about it? Is there some way for me to troubleshoot? Is there something I could look for? Is there someone is Los Angeles?
I am not sure where to go now. Thanks.
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dhoward
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| Posted: November 05 2007 at 14:41 | IP Logged
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Troubleshooting Insteon communication issues is always a bear. PowerHome can be a very useful tool though for helping pinpoint problems.
To start with, I would open the Insteon Explorer and go to the Devices tab. Click the heading of the "Clear COMMs" column to place a check in every line and press Save/Refresh. This will clear ALL store communication statistics. I like to do this *anytime* I make a change that could effect communications so I can see errors more quickly rather than being averaged in. Next, make sure that every device has been "Clear Failed" and I would probably go ahead and check every line for "Scan DB". Set the "Poll Interval" for a low value such as 5, "Max Failures" to 5 and make sure that "Status Scan" and "Link Scan" are checked. This will make PowerHome pretty busy for some time as it scans the database of every Insteon device but it's the best way to quickly build up communication statistics.
After PowerHome is done scanning every device's links, go to the Reports tab and check the Ack Vs Nak report. If you've got any red showing in this report, you're having communication issues. The report is sorted with the worst communication devices at the end. Look at the whole report and try to determine if it's just a few devices that are having alot of NAKs or if it's generally all devices. If every device is having alot of NAK's then you *may* have a bad PLC or it could be alot of interference or noise on your lines. Swapping the PLC is one way to rule out a bad PLC but another very easy thing to try which has a high success rate is plugging the PLC into a different outlet, preferably one far away from your computer or any UPS. If this doesnt resolve it, then you've most likely got interference on the line or possibly a bad Insteon device flooding the line with crap. There are two ways to troubleshoot from here. Either turn off a circuit breaker at a time and see if Insteon communication improves, when you locate the breaker that makes everything else work then you've at least tracked down the circuit causing the problem. At this point, you've got re-enable the circuit and then start unplugging or disconnecting until you've found the source. The other method that people use is to turn off ALL the breakers (except the PLC breaker) and then one at a time, turn them on and attempt communication with the devices powered with that breaker. When you get to the breaker that breaks communication, you're again determined what circuit is causing the problems. Keep in mind, that you may have multiple problems and the last method is better to find this type of problem. It could be flourescent lighting causing interference, UPS's, computers, etc.
If instead of every device having problems and it's just a few devices (sorted to the end of the report), then you've got to look at what do they have in common. Are they all on the same circuit, do they all have flourescent lighting next to them, are they next to computers, are they far away from the breaker panel, etc. You may need to install noise filters on certain devices if you determine they are introducing noise on the line. You may also need to acquire additional Access Points or re-arrange the one you've got. Anything you try though, clear the communication statistics and set PowerHome up to re-scan so it can quickly rebuild the statistics. Scan the reports and see if the changes made any difference. Eventually you should be able to track it down but it's usually a painful process.
Dave.
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wahansen
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| Posted: November 05 2007 at 16:11 | IP Logged
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I don't know about 1.03.4.9, but under 1.03.4.12 it is important that "Max failures" be nonzero. Otherwise, zero failures matches zero max failures immediately, and no comm is even attempted.
I learned this during a long, productive debugging session with Dave that deserves its own post, if I could just find the time. Suffice it say now that it felt like what David Intersimone of Borland called "A Sip from the Firehose."
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Lazyman
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| Posted: November 05 2007 at 20:07 | IP Logged
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Okay, I know this sounds like a really, really stupid question, but:
My communications suck (every device has a blue bar between 70 and 80). I assume I am shooting for something higher than that. How do I move the PLC away from the computer and keep the USB connection?
While I am asking stupid questions . . . If I follow this plan (turning off circuit breakers one at a time, clearing everything and re-scanning, won't it take days to find the problem, and does this help where I have multiple Insteon devices on one circuit? Is there some type of device to check for line noise other than this?
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bhlonewolf
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| Posted: November 05 2007 at 20:29 | IP Logged
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Lazyman:
Well, you've got two approaches you can take. Brute force, where you unplug things, turn off breakers, etc., or try the logical/common sense approach.
Currently, AFAIK, there's no good diagnostic tools available (well, aside from PH :)). Because you're seeing a general 70-80% reliability, odds are the computer is putting out a lot of noise and the PLC is having issues.
Moving the PLC to another circuit might help a little, but the primary issue is the noise. What I'd recommend is buying a slew of 10-amp FilterLincs from Smarthome (or elsewhere). I'd avoid the 5-amp ones (same form factor as the 10-amp, might as well get higher rated ones), or for the big appliances, you can buy a 15-amp filter.
The obvious offenders are low voltage transformers, some halogen or florescent lighting, and computers. If you want to rule out the computer, you can run a laptop off battery and try that, while the computer is shutdown. Keep the poll frequency really low, and let it run.
But I've applied filters to my low-voltage xformers, computers, etc., and I'm up to either 100% or a hair under...
Good luck!
Edited by bhlonewolf - November 05 2007 at 20:34
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BeachBum
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| Posted: November 05 2007 at 20:47 | IP Logged
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Since I'm always fighting noise this is what I did. Where my computer stuff plugs in I have a FilterLinc (noise filter ) that I have a UPS plugged into. After that I have all of the computer stuff except the PLC plugged into the UPS one way or another. The biggest help was the noise filter and isolating the power line absorbing devices like surge protectors. Just make sure the PLC is on a line without a surge protector. My 2 cents worth….
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Lazyman
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| Posted: November 12 2007 at 12:35 | IP Logged
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Here is an update on my saga. Damn the wife . . . I ran a big bright orange extension cord across my house to plug in the PLC far from the computer. I got a whole different communication result. Ack v. Nak suddently all blue bars.
Then I switched and put the PLC back where it was and plugged the computer into the extension cord. I still have great communications.
I just ordered a filterlinc and I am hoping I can plug the computer into the filter and all will go well.
If you are having linking problems with Powerhome, take the time to test your communications.
I will update again when I get the filter. Thanks to all who have suggestions.
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cmhardwick
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| Posted: November 13 2007 at 09:39 | IP Logged
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just for reference, what size filterlinc did you order? I need a couple, but I'm not sure how to judge what size I need for what device. And, at the price, I don't really want to "over buy" 
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bhlonewolf
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| Posted: November 13 2007 at 09:57 | IP Logged
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I personally use a bunch of 10 amp modules. The best way to know for sure is to get a kill-a-watt meter and plug everything into it. Then you'd know for sure. A 5 amp module won't likely get you very far, but 10 amps can handle quite a bit.
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PowerHome Messageboard : PowerHome General
Topic: Cannot Manage Insteon Links
