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k2zs
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| Posted: November 20 2009 at 07:28 | IP Logged
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I manage a PowerHome installation and there is a macro that runs every night to perform an "Insteon Check". Every morning I find the PLM is listed in the "Devices" screen with the "Clear Failed" check-box highlighted red and the "Disabled" check-box is checked. I also see in the devices window that the "Comm Reliability" value is 0% and always has been since switching from a PLC to a PLM. What could be causing this to happen?
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Scott, K2ZS
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grif091
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There is a known problem where the PLM is red shaded. Has to do with the PLM being linked as a responder to a switch where a dim/bright is initiated from the switch. It does not cause any functional problem and is targeted to be fixed in the next release.
If you run with the Insteon Raw Log being written to a file you should be able to collect the failing sequence. This requires a full path/file be defined for the Raw Log using Setup/Controllers/Settings and then Reinit Powerhome. Also the Insteon Explorer "Echo raw log to file" option must be checked.
The red shading and disabled status only prevents background activity to the PLM such as writing new links records. Normal foreground activity such as triggers, macros, etc are not affected.
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k2zs
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| Posted: November 20 2009 at 18:42 | IP Logged
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Thanks for your help. I have been chasing issues in the event log as well and am wondreing if they may also be related to the PLM?
Every evening the system does a status scan and during that time the event log is filled with many "unmapped commands" with odd references to things. Is that also a PLM issue?
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grif091
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Can you post some of the Event Log entries. I would not start with the idea that the issue is with the PLM. The problem I mentioned in my previous post is not related to anything with the specific PLM. That is a PH problem.
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k2zs
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Not sure how to do that but here goes... Here are 9 entries in the event log:
11/20/2009 04:41:18.109 30 &nbs p; Incoming Insteon received on Insteon DM controller AMP SERIAL. From Address:[05.DD.8C] To Address:[0F.D5.5B] Flags:[1] Cmd1:[65] Cmd2:[192]. Decode: Direct. From: M BATH INDIRECT OH To: PLM, Spklr Valve Off &nb sp;164 Insteon In 0 &nb sp;#000000 65280 &nb sp; #00ff00
11/20/2009 04:38:47.64 30 ; Incoming Insteon received on Insteon DM controller AMP SERIAL. From Address:[08.90.35] To Address:[0F.D5.5B] Flags:[33] Cmd1:[65] Cmd2:[128]. Decode: Direct ACK. From: F LIVING RM FIREPLACE To: PLM, Spklr Valve Off &nb sp;163 Insteon In 0 &nb sp;#000000 65280 &nb sp; #00ff00
11/20/2009 04:37:53.859 30 &nbs p; Incoming Extended Insteon received on Insteon DM controller AMP SERIAL. From Address:[05.C4.34] To Address:[0F.D5.5B] Flags:[59] Cmd1:[1] Cmd2:[236] EXT Data:[10 07 A0 30 03 C0 6C 60 FD 55 B2 12 B2 03 ]. Decode: Ext Direct ACK. From: To: PLM, Assign ALL Link &n bsp;162 Insteon In 0 &nb sp;#000000 65280 &nb sp; #00ff00
11/20/2009 04:36:03.125 30 &nbs p; Incoming Extended Insteon received on Insteon DM controller AMP SERIAL. From Address:[5F.F6.0A] To Address:[A8.91.15] Flags:[179] Cmd1:[129] Cmd2:[230] EXT Data:[F8 67 A0 30 03 C0 6C 60 FD 55 B2 12 B2 03 ]. Decode: Ext NAK of Direct. From: To: , Unmapped Command ; 161 Insteon In 0 &nb sp;#000000 65280 &nb sp; #00ff00
11/20/2009 04:35:41.218 30 &nbs p; Incoming Extended Insteon received on Insteon DM controller AMP SERIAL. From Address:[00.E7.5A] To Address:[0F.D5.5B] Flags:[54] Cmd1:[215] Cmd2:[192] EXT Data:[38 47 A0 30 03 C0 6C 60 FD 55 B2 12 B2 03 ]. Decode: Ext Direct ACK. From: G GARAGE RECESSED To: PLM, Unmapped Command ; 160 Insteon In 0 &nb sp;#000000 65280 &nb sp; #00ff00
11/20/2009 04:34:47.843 30 &nbs p; Incoming Extended Insteon received on Insteon DM controller AMP SERIAL. From Address:[03.32.3B] To Address:[0F.D5.5B] Flags:[22] Cmd1:[203] Cmd2:[192] EXT Data:[EE 47 A0 30 03 C0 6C 60 FD 55 B2 12 B2 03 ]. Decode: Ext Direct. From: B DOWN DINNETTE CNTL 1 To: PLM, Unmapped Command ; 159 Insteon In 0 &nb sp;#000000 65280 &nb sp; #00ff00
11/20/2009 04:30:21.859 30 &nbs p; Incoming Extended Insteon received on Insteon DM controller AMP SERIAL. From Address:[02.06.38] To Address:[0F.D5.5B] Flags:[17] Cmd1:[215] Cmd2:[192] EXT Data:[26 FA B4 1C 48 2F 6C 60 FD 55 B2 12 B2 03 ]. Decode: Ext Direct. From: To: PLM, Unmapped Command ; 158 Insteon In 0 &nb sp;#000000 65280 &nb sp; #00ff00
11/20/2009 04:28:21.484 30 &nbs p; Incoming Extended Insteon received on Insteon DM controller AMP SERIAL. From Address:[05.E5.9E] To Address:[0F.D5.5B] Flags:[58] Cmd1:[215] Cmd2:[192] EXT Data:[27 4A B4 1C 48 2F 6C 60 FD 55 B2 12 B2 03 ]. Decode: Ext Direct ACK. From: F MUSIC RM FIREPLACE To: PLM, Unmapped Command ; 157 Insteon In 0 &nb sp;#000000 65280 &nb sp; #00ff00
11/20/2009 04:28:16.453 30 &nbs p; Incoming Extended Insteon received on Insteon DM controller AMP SERIAL. From Address:[0A.14.5E] To Address:[0F.D5.5B] Flags:[54] Cmd1:[215] Cmd2:[192] EXT Data:[74 AA B4 1C 48 2F 6C 60 FD 55 B2 12 B2 03 ]. Decode: Ext Direct ACK. From: To: PLM, Unmapped Command ; 156 Insteon In 0 &nb sp;#000000 65280 &nb sp; #00ff00
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k2zs
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The one top entry is very strange... I don't see how anything from a light may be tied to a sprinkler valve... especially since I have none on the system.
I recently had the system upgraded from ver 1.x to the current verasion 2 and went from a PLC to a PLM. The previous version had a total meltdown and the database was corrupted.
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grif091
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The Sprinkler Valve Off is Powerhome attempting to describe the Cmd1:[65] value which is a Sprinkler Value Off command if it was an EZFlora device. Powerhome is not making any attempt to describe the cmd1 value in the context of the actual device type.
Take a look at the From Address:[xx.xx.xx] values on those messages you posted and see if they are all actually valid Insteon addresses for the devices you have installed. Many of the messages are Extended messages which are usually not sent from any device based on a Powerhome Status Scan. They look like garbage messages. Could be a PLM problem. What Poll Interval is specified for the Status Scan and are the From Address values valid? Poll Interval is specified on the Insteon Explorer screen.
EDIT: also could be something generating lots of noise on the powerline which is being interpreted as Insteon messages or perhaps something on the RF frequency of the Access Points flooding them with garbage.
Edited by grif091 - November 20 2009 at 20:11
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BeachBum
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| Posted: November 20 2009 at 20:47 | IP Logged
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Lee is right on with you may be seeing noise. I have that type of environment and see entries that are labeled “Unmapped” in my log. As a result I built Insteon recovery procedures using PH_GETINSTEONLEVELRT commands to obtain what the device thought it was doing and if it is not what I intended then I resend the command.
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k2zs
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OK then that was great information. I just reviewed the event log for the day. So far there have been 4 unmapped commands total to 2 specific devices which doesn't seem like a terrible thing in the pig picture. There are 200 +/- devices in this network.
This home has a large amount of electronic picture frames and the biggest failures started when he added a wall of 9 - 14" electronic picture frames.
I have 8 devices reporting link fragmentation in one of the reports in the Insteon Explorer. How would I clean that up? I am assuming by factory resetting those devices?
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BeachBum
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My understanding of link fragmentation is the rebuild will fix it. Lee can probable elaborate more on that.
EDIT: If the fragmentation is within the specific device.
Edited by BeachBum - November 20 2009 at 22:27
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grif091
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Sounds like the picture frames are a good candidate for a FilterLinc. The solution to fragmented links depends on what they represent. If the link between the two devices is suppose to be there than rebuilding the device where one end of the link is missing should correct the problem. If the link between the two devices should not be there it was probably the result of garbage from one of the devices during the Status Scan. In this case deleting the definition is appropriate.
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k2zs
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| Posted: November 21 2009 at 07:27 | IP Logged
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Thanks Lee. I was having issues where I would repair/rebuild all the links only to find various broken links the next day. That seems to have been resolved by relocating the PLM to a new circuit. Of the 9 devices reporting link fragmentation only one had a questionable link in it. I rebuilt that link this morning. The links in the other 8 devices look fine and are exactly what they should be. Should I destroy the links first and then try rebuilding them?
There are approx 10 - 12 bridges in the home which are the older revision with the black antenna out the bottom. I spoke with SmartHome and they said that those repeaters/bridges have been replaced. Perhaps I should start there along with filtering all picture frames.
I should probably catalogue all of the existing bridge addresses and see if they may be some of the address in the event log that I can't find in the device database. I am assuming that bridges can't be managed via powerhome since I can't find any of them in powerhome.
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grif091
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Moving the plug point of the PLM is a good diagnostic technique. The fact that things improved is a good indication that there are noise or signal attenuation problems on at least the circuit the PLM was originally plugged into. A common issue is the power supply of a PC and UPS. They do such a good job of reducing noise on the circuit they are plugged into that if the PLM is plugged into the same circuit the Insteon signal, which looks like noise to those devices, is reduced to the point that the powerline network becomes unreliable. It is good practice to install a FilterLinc between the UPS and the powerline. Also being sure the PLM is not supplied through a surge suppressing power strip or the UPS itself as that will reduce Insteon signal strength.
The SignaLinc RF devices have nothing to manage. They simply sit on the powerline, sending and receiving Insteon messages over RF that are detected on the powerline. They serve to couple the two 120v legs and also improve reliability by inserting Insteon signals into other circuits. They have been replaced with Access Points which couple the two 120v legs and in addition serve as RF send/receive points for Insteon wireless RF devices. The Access Points operate on a different RF frequency than the older SignaLincs RF so they do not interfere with each other. The SignaLinc RF and Access Points simply repeat Insteon messages from other Insteon devices so you would not expect to see those device addresses as To or From address values.
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k2zs
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Thanks Lee,
Actually that 9 screen picture wall is right above the PC that runs PowerHome. The power strip that runs the UPS for the PC, the picture wall, and all the other computer devices is already filtered. Can I make a longer connecting cable for the PLM to finalize the move? I am currently using an extension cord. If so is there a maximum length? I know from other applications that RS232 is limited to 50'
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grif091
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I assume there is a design limit on the RS232 connection to the PLM but I could not find anything in the Smarthome documentation. Guess that will have to be a question for the Smarthome support folks. Normally you can plug the PLM directly into the 120v circuit (not using a power strip) after isolating everything else with a FilterLinc. Might be something else on that particular 120v circuit other than what is currently being filtered if moving the PLM plug point still provides more reliable operation
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BeachBum
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| Posted: November 21 2009 at 09:19 | IP Logged
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Try plugging the Access Point directly into the PLM. This will eliminate the local noise problem if that is what you are experiencing. This is not a permanent solution because of the heat issue between the 2.
The length of a serial cable is determined by the data rate with the average being 50’. The lowest 8’ is 115200 bps and the longest 300’ at 2400 bps.
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k2zs
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Since running the status check nightly for 4 hours is causing device errors and making random devices change state, is there any reason I can't disable the ststus check nightly? I reduced the run time to 2 hours and still find device changes. Strangely enough, PH Device status sometimes shows devices on or dimmed and the physical light is off.
I doing research this weekend I find there are issues with CFL lights and Insteon. Unfortunately 95% of the lights in this home are CFL. Is there an method of filtering out the noise created by these lights?
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grif091
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I run the Status Scan only when some change has been made to the Insteon devices outside of Powerhome. The more powerline problems exist the more problems Status Scan is going to encounter. There is a Device Status display some folks like to look at that the Status Scan may keep more up to date but I don't use that either except during testing.
Watching the Smarthome forum, some CFL lights work fine with Insteon, others are very problematic. You might search that forum to see what CFLs are giving problems and those that are not. There is a FilterLinc for devices that are plugin. Don't know if Smarthome makes something that can be installed in the electrical circuit itself. Again, the Smarthome Insteon forum would be a better source for that information than the Powerhome forum.
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| Posted: November 23 2009 at 08:38 | IP Logged
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I am using about 80% CFLs and am not experiencing a problem. Mine are Litetronics dimmable. I have heard others have had a problem also and the problem may be with the particular manufacture. My biggest noise generator is my track lights. I have one circuit that is so bad I have to run X10 on 2 units to achieve what I’m after. You could filter the lights after the Insteon device but I don’t believe you could run dim commands without changing the characteristics of the filter.
If you mean by “status check” you are running Status Scan I have found no need to run it unless you are making changes. Again my method to build reliability is to check the real status of the light and reissue the command if it is not right. Someone else uses a method that accomplishes the same results by driving all Insteon command through one macro.
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k2zs
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| Posted: November 24 2009 at 06:50 | IP Logged
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OMG Thanks Lee,
I disabled the nightly status scan and this morning I checked into a "Happy System". Overall unmapped commands for the 24 hour period yesterday were 3 and I could see where all but one actually tried again and sent the right command.
How do you implement the "PH_GETINSTEONLEVELRT" command? Is that something that has to be written for each problem device? Where can I find examples or documentation?
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Topic: PLM Questions
