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jpkelly100
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| Posted: February 28 2009 at 21:01 | IP Logged
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Built in EZIO4 support would be cool. Right now using raw command to get it working.
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grif091
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| Posted: February 28 2009 at 21:13 | IP Logged
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Can you expand on what you are looking for. Output control? Input recognition? I control my 2X4 outputs with standard Insteon Group commands used for any other Insteon responder.
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Lee G
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jpkelly100
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| Posted: March 07 2009 at 21:40 | IP Logged
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I was looking for output control. EZIO4 is relay only. I can't link PLC to relay. It keeps telling me button number needs to be 1 - 254. Relay numbers are 0 - 3. Not sure what else to do, so i just use raw output.
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grif091
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| Posted: March 08 2009 at 11:37 | IP Logged
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Support for devices which have multiple outputs is not so much a feature request as a bug fix request. I was on PH1 when I did my EZIO2X4 setup, creating PLC/PLM Links with the 2X4 relays as responders. The relay 1 (button 0) definition was accepted on PH1 but you had to check KPL column to get it to take relay 2 (button 1). Those links and definitions existed when I went to PH2 so I did not test the new PH2 columns where the number of Controllers and the number of Responders are specified as individual values. PH2 should be verifying for 0-x button values for LD3 unless it is a KPL where button numbers start at 1.
As a work around you can create the PLC/PLM Links for relays 2,3,4 (button numbers 1,2,3) but when it comes to creating the link for relay 1 (button 0) you have to change the device type to something like a SwitchLinc where the output unit number is 0. That will let PH2 create the link for relay 1 (button 0) and then change the device type back to EZIO4O. Once the links are created no additional validation is done.
If you use PH2 to create the links in the EZIO4O be sure the memory size specification is correct. The newer large memory size PLMs supporting 2000+ links (including the internal PLMs) have started to appear in the SHN products now shipping. Otherwise, if you do have a large memory size PLM but use the default 4096 value, the links will be written into the wrong location and will not be seen by the device.
I just verified I can create links for my EZIO8SA relays 1-3 (button 0-2) using the procedure described above. I had to create a special SwitchLinc Type entry with a memory size of 16384 to get the relay 1 (button 0) link written correctly. I had already set the EZIO8SA Type definition entry to 16384. I don’t have any of the SHN devices with internal PLMs containing the larger memory (the EZIO8SA uses an external PLM for those not familiar with the SHN products) but I have worked with more than one user on the SHN forum who do have recent SHN products with the larger memory internal PLMs. The symptoms in that case show up as, Set button links work but cannot be seen with software and software created links can be displayed but do not work. All because Set button links were created by hardware at the higher memory addresses which software was not looking at nor writing to. Simply a matter of setting the software device memory size specification to match the actual PLM memory size but it was very confusing the first time this surfaced. Luckily PH2 allows the memory size to be specified for each device Type (another great job by Dave).
Edited by grif091 - March 08 2009 at 11:42
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dhoward
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| Posted: March 10 2009 at 19:06 | IP Logged
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ARGGHHH! I'll definately need to get this fixed. I was unaware that any Insteon devices were actually using group 0. So if I understand this correctly, the EZIO line of devices start their group numbering at 0? Does anyone know of any other devices like this?
Changes were made recently to handle the various devices that have a different number of incoming groups from outgoing groups as evidenced by the Ctlr Groups and Resp Groups in the Insteon Types table. Im wondering how best to handle this new "kink". Have a simple flag that allows you to start groups at 0, have 2 extra columns for Ctrl group lower bound and Resp Group lower bound, or just always allow groups to start at 0 where someone can potentially make a mistake and set a group to 0 when it isnt supported.
Let me know what makes the most sense to everyone.
Thanks,
Dave.
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grif091
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| Posted: March 10 2009 at 21:50 | IP Logged
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Dave, it is the responder side (LD3) that starts with Group 0 (output relays mostly). For a device with 4 output relays, the LD3 values (responder link button number) are 00-03. The controller side of the devices that have multiple Inputs (controllers, like a KPL has multiple buttons) start with Group 1. A device with 4 Inputs (controllers) uses Group 1-4 as the default but this can be overridden with their Utility Suite such that any valid Insteon Group number can be assigned to any of the 4 Inputs. One of the reasons I like your new Ctlr and Resp Group columns.
For the Responder side of a device I don’t know of any Insteon device that starts with an LD3 value other than 0 except for a KeypadLinc which of course starts with LD3 1 to match the button number. ICON switches, LampLincs, ApplianceLincs, all of the SimpleHomeNet line of devices, start with an LD3 value of 0 for the first or only output. I looked through the Controllers (of Current Device) links under the PH2 Links tab and all the blue Button column values representing the LD3 value in the responder link record are 0 except for KPL buttons and my SimpleHomeNet devices that have multiple outputs. Same with the Responders (of Current Device) green Button values. Always 0 except for a KeypadLinc and the SimpleHomeNet devices with multiple outputs.
The addition of separate Ctlr Group and Resp Group columns is the right approach in my opinion. It permits specifying the correct number of Inputs (Controllers) and Outputs (Responders) for each type of device. This supports the SimpleHomeNet line of devices, the newer Smarthome devices link the Motion Sensor that has 3 Controllers/Groups (Motion, Dark, Low Battery) with 0 Responders. This way one can always define a custom Device Type for any new device that comes down the pike, regardless of the number of Controllers (groups) or Responders (output devices) that particular device may have.
I think the button number validation should be 0 thru (Resp Groups column value-1) for all responder link button numbers (LD3 value) except for a KeypadLinc which would be 1 thru (Resp Groups column value). The Button number validation for Controller link Group numbers is a little more complex. For most Insteon devices the Controller Group number (button number) always starts with 1. ICON switches, SwitchLincs, KeypadLincs, Motion Sensors, IOLincs, most of the SimpleHomeNet devices, and on and on all start with Group 1 for the first or only Controller (Group). The exception is the collection of powerline interface devices (PLMs, EZBrige/EZSrve from SimpleHomeNet and so on) where the starting Controller Group number can be anything the interfacing software/firmware wants to start with. For an EZBridge/EZSrve the starting Controller Group number is 0 but this is reserved for its own use. I noticed PH2 enforces a starting number of 1 for a PLC/PLM Groups definition. The most flexible solution would be to have two more columns, starting Group number and starting Responder LD3 value (probably not those terms). Fill them in with default values that match the current devices available but let the user change them to anything they want to support new devices not yet thought about. I know that the addition of new columns means a database change and the migration implications.
An alternative might be to allow the Ctlr Groups and Resp Groups columns accept something like 2/0 or 2-0 or 2(0) or 2 0 where the 2 represents the total number of Groups as it does today and the second optional digit represents the starting point the hardware is expecting (button validation number). With the flood of new devices where the number of Controller and Responder Group numbers are no longer equal, where most devices start with LD3 0 for the first/only output device, but the KPL starts with an LD3 1 value, where most devices start with Group 1 except for a PLM/EZBridge/EZSrve where they can start with Group 0, allowing some form of default override would support anything that may hit the field.
As a solution for now I would be happy with accepting a Button number of 0 for any value that is going to go into the LD3 field unless the KPL column is checked in which case the button number should start at 1. If that allows a user to get in trouble in the future so be it. There is only so much you can do with all the various combinations out there. Better to allow what is valid and necessary to support a line of devices.
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Lee G
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PowerHome Messageboard : PowerHome Feature Requests
Topic: EZIO4
