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jeffw_00
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Posted: December 15 2012 at 19:23 | IP Logged Quote jeffw_00
So I bought a new appliance module at their recent sale. I installed it like I always do, and it worked on local control, but from PH it was odd. It responded like it was working, but it would not change state (and it knew, because when I polled state it confirmed that it hadn't changed state (i.e., i hand-set it to on. It stays ON, responds to OFF commands with an ACK, but stays on and when I poll it it confirms it's on). I thought it might be an I2CS thing so I installed the patch but it didn't help.

I posted at the SH form and Lee G responded...

"The ApplianceLinc is an I2CS device. The 2.1.4 I2CS Zip has to be installed and the Enable Pending and Status Scan option set and complete the Status Scan for PH to be I2CS device aware and create the necessary authorization link to be able to control the I2CS device."

I'm running it now, but I'm wondering if the Status Scan is a one-time thing or I have to leave it checked (I don't care for all the traffic)

thanks!
/j
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jeffw_00
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Posted: December 15 2012 at 19:28 | IP Logged Quote jeffw_00
Ok - it ran, and I saw it POLL the new module at least twice, but i still have the same issue.

) I did hard-reset the module
2) local control works
3) When controlling from PH, I can see that the module is receiving and Direct ACKing commands, but it's not toggling state.
4) Also, using PH, I can poll the state of the module after each command. It KNOWS that it's not changing state.

What am I doing wrong?

Thanks!!!
/j

Edited by jeffw_00 - December 15 2012 at 19:29
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grif091
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Posted: December 15 2012 at 19:40 | IP Logged Quote grif091
When a hard reset is done the authorization link is gone so no device control. The ApplianceLinc link database has to be rebuilt. Have not tried that specific action so cannot confirm from direct observation that the necessary stuff is done to reestablish the needed link.

Was the iEngine set to I2CS after the Status Scene completed?
?

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jeffw_00
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Posted: December 15 2012 at 19:43 | IP Logged Quote jeffw_00
Hi Lee

actually, I haven't done a hard reset since I read your first Email, only earlier this afternoon.

"Was the iEngine set to I2CS" <- I read the words but don't understand them - sorry!!!

Do I have to -create a link- in Insteon Explorer for this to work? I've never done that for responders before...

Maybe this is a good place for a quick step-by-step on how to install one of these new-fangled thingies? I'm sure others are going to trip on this soon..

and T H A N K S !

/j
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jeffw_00
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Posted: December 15 2012 at 20:08 | IP Logged Quote jeffw_00
I tried enabling scan with "scan link" checked, and when it got to SCAN LINK for the new module it got in an infinite loop (i.e., retrying forever... had to re-init)

???
/j
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grif091
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Posted: December 15 2012 at 21:45 | IP Logged Quote grif091
In the Devices tab, for the new ApplianceLinc entry, in the iEngine column will show I2CS and the Use Ext for ALDB column will be checked when the Status Scan for the I2CS ApplianceLinc is complete (which means adding the ApplianceLinc is complete). Adding an I2CS device is not as simple as creating a new Device tabs entry. The I2CS support is built into Status Scan. Once the Device tab entry has been created and Saved there will be additional processing to create the necessary link record done during Status Scan of the new Device entry.

I2CS devices will not talk to just any PLM anymore. Part of the additional security associated with the I2CS enhancements requires PH to create a link between the device and the PLM so additional link records can be created and the device can be controlled.
     

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Posted: December 15 2012 at 23:17 | IP Logged Quote grif091
The Scan Link will get into trouble if PH does not know it is an I2CS device. PH will use Peek/Poke commands which are not implemented in an I2CS device. The commands are just echoed back from the device making it look to PH that the link database never ends.

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jeffw_00
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Posted: December 15 2012 at 23:55 | IP Logged Quote jeffw_00
Hi Lee - iEngine is blank, Use EXT for ALDB is not checked, and SCAN LINK for the offending device is STUCK in the Pending column (a re-init didn't clear it).

SO (sigh)
1) how do I clear the Pending column?
2) Then what - running Status Scan (without SCAN LINK) didn't seem to do anything useful.

I guess this is a downside of PH - I can't call SH, they'll tell me to use different SW (sigh).

I can't find any threads on this - surely Dave's written some setup advice?   

Thanks though - let me know what you think I should do.

best
/j
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Posted: December 16 2012 at 01:12 | IP Logged Quote BeachBum
We use to have a similar problem if the load was less than 5 watts. Could set it locally but it would bounce with PH. I would assume that's not the issue in this case.

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grif091
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Posted: December 16 2012 at 08:21 | IP Logged Quote grif091
Try unchecking Enable Pending, Status Scan, and Scan Link. Then remove the ApplianceLinc from the Device tab. may have to reinit. I would think that would stop the activity against the ApplianceLinc Insteon address.

Once PH is stable again add the ApplianceLinc to the Devices tab, check Enable Pending and Status Scan so PH can complete the device add process for the I2CS ApplianceLinc.

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jeffw_00
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Posted: December 16 2012 at 10:16 | IP Logged Quote jeffw_00
Hi Beachbum - I'm using 150W lamp as test device.

Lee - Your suggestions for getting back to baseline worked, and I'm running the Status Scan. However,
whenever it comes to that module I see a NAK, even though the module is now plugged into the same Ext Cord as the PLM. And, as you might guess, the iEngine setting is blank and the ALDB box is unchecked.

Maybe it -is- a bad module?

Should I try likning the PLM to it as a controller manually?

Thanks again!
/j

Edited by jeffw_00 - December 16 2012 at 10:16
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grif091
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Posted: December 16 2012 at 10:38 | IP Logged Quote grif091
The NAKs are normal until the authorization link is created. I'll go back through what Dave published regarding I2CS support. I actually have an I2CS ApplianceLinc defined to PH. It was done during testing before the I2CS Zip was released. Perhaps I have forgotten a step. It should not be necessary to manually link..

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Posted: December 16 2012 at 10:54 | IP Logged Quote grif091
I did not see anything that is being missed. I would check the dates on the two files in the directory PH is being invoked from. Maybe the two files from the Zip did not get stored in the current library.

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jeffw_00
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Posted: December 16 2012 at 11:05 | IP Logged Quote jeffw_00
Hi Lee - I previously did double check - I have the right files. How long do you let the status scan run? I let it run 20 minutes (about 3 passes). If that's sufficient then maybe the Module is indeed DOA

Thanks!
/j

PS - If Dave is watching - here's hoping newer releases produce easier (or at least, more direct) ways of doing this.

PPS - here's the thing I don't get - what happens if I had, say, a KPL controlling an Appliance Module, and the Appliance Module died and I swapped this in to replace it. Clearly there's no way to 'update' the KPL firmware to support I2CS. Is there really no 'legacy' mode supported by the newer modules, if not, I guess I would be SOL? I can't believe SH would actively try to obselesce its product base...

(follow up - the PPS is eloquently answered here:
www.smarthome.com/forum/topic.asp?whichpage=1&TOPIC_ID=11842
4th response)

/j

Edited by jeffw_00 - December 16 2012 at 12:15
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jeffw_00
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Posted: December 16 2012 at 12:13 | IP Logged Quote jeffw_00
after searching the forum, it seems like I just need to let the status scan run, like, overnight.(?) I'll try that tonight.

But I gotta tell you - I take these appliance modules out of service, and then redeploy them elsewhere, all the time. If I can't sit down at my PC and have the new module 'installed' in 5 minutes or less, that's going to be a real crimp. But I'm not worried, I'm sure Dave will find a way around this issue soon 8-}

/j
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grif091
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Posted: December 16 2012 at 12:41 | IP Logged Quote grif091
Here is the Insteon Raw Log from adding the ApplianceLinc. I deleted the ApplianceLinc, reinit and added it back

First Engine query returns FF indicating PLM not authorized
2012-12-16 13:26:30.875     TX  &nbs p;  02 62 1C F2 EE 05 0D 00
2012-12-16 13:26:31.171     RX  &nbs p;  SENTINSTEON=0F 44 DC 1C F2 EE 05 0D 00 06
2012-12-16 13:26:31.250     RX  &nbs p;  RECEIVEINSTEONRAW=1C F2 EE 0F 44 DC A1 0D FF
2012-12-16 13:26:31.328     RX  &nbs p;  INSTEON NAK=1C F2 EE
Authorization link created between PLM and ApplianceLinc
2012-12-16 13:26:31.406     TX  &nbs p;  02 64 01 00
2012-12-16 13:26:31.437     RX  &nbs p;  STARTALLLINK=01 00 06
2012-12-16 13:26:31.453     TX  &nbs p;  02 62 1C F2 EE 1F 09 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 F6
2012-12-16 13:26:31.515     RX  &nbs p;  SENTINSTEONEXT=0F 44 DC 1C F2 EE 1F 09 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 F6 06
2012-12-16 13:26:36.609     RX  &nbs p;  INSTEON EXT TIMEOUT=1C F2 EE
2012-12-16 13:26:36.609     TX  &nbs p;  02 62 1C F2 EE 1F 09 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 F6
2012-12-16 13:26:37.031     RX  &nbs p;  SENTINSTEONEXT=0F 44 DC 1C F2 EE 1F 09 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 F6 06
2012-12-16 13:26:37.406     RX  &nbs p;  RECEIVEINSTEONRAW=1C F2 EE 0F 44 DC 2B 09 01
2012-12-16 13:26:39.062     RX  &nbs p;  ALLLINKCOMPLETE=01 00 1C F2 EE 02 09 42
2012-12-16 13:26:39.062     TX  &nbs p;  02 62 1C F2 EE 0F 08 01
2012-12-16 13:26:39.109     RX  &nbs p;  SENTINSTEON=0F 44 DC 1C F2 EE 0F 08 01 06
2012-12-16 13:26:40.343     RX  &nbs p;  RECEIVEINSTEONRAW=1C F2 EE 0F 44 DC 2B 08 01
2012-12-16 13:26:40.546     TX  &nbs p;  02 62 1C F2 EE 0F 19 00
2012-12-16 13:26:40.578     RX  &nbs p;  SENTINSTEON=0F 44 DC 1C F2 EE 0F 19 00 06
2012-12-16 13:26:41.343     RX  &nbs p;  RECEIVEINSTEONRAW=1C F2 EE 0F 44 DC 2B 01 FF
2012-12-16 13:26:41.593     TX  &nbs p;  02 62 1C F2 EE 05 28 00
2012-12-16 13:26:41.625     RX  &nbs p;  SENTINSTEON=0F 44 DC 1C F2 EE 05 28 00 06
2012-12-16 13:26:42.093     RX  &nbs p;  RECEIVEINSTEONRAW=1C F2 EE 0F 44 DC 21 28 00
2012-12-16 13:26:42.234     TX  &nbs p;  02 62 1C F2 EE 05 2B 30
2012-12-16 13:26:42.281     RX  &nbs p;  SENTINSTEON=0F 44 DC 1C F2 EE 05 2B 30 06
2012-12-16 13:26:42.484     RX  &nbs p;  RECEIVEINSTEONRAW=1C F2 EE 0F 44 DC 21 2B 30
2012-12-16 13:26:42.625     TX  &nbs p;  02 62 1C F2 EE 05 2B 31
2012-12-16 13:26:42.671     RX  &nbs p;  SENTINSTEON=0F 44 DC 1C F2 EE 05 2B 31 06
2012-12-16 13:26:43.156     RX  &nbs p;  RECEIVEINSTEONRAW=1C F2 EE 0F 44 DC 21 2B 31
This Engine query returns I2CS indication now that PLM is authorized to talk to ApplianceLinc
2012-12-16 13:26:53.484     TX  &nbs p;  02 62 1C F2 EE 05 0D 00
2012-12-16 13:26:53.765     RX  &nbs p;  SENTINSTEON=0F 44 DC 1C F2 EE 05 0D 00 06
2012-12-16 13:26:53.906     RX  &nbs p;  RECEIVEINSTEONRAW=1C F2 EE 0F 44 DC 21 0D 02
2012-12-16 13:26:54.125     TX  &nbs p;  02 62 1C F2 EE 0F 19 00
2012-12-16 13:26:54.171     RX  &nbs p;  SENTINSTEON=0F 44 DC 1C F2 EE 0F 19 00 06
2012-12-16 13:26:54.703     RX  &nbs p;  RECEIVEINSTEONRAW=1C F2 EE 0F 44 DC 2B 01 FF
Extended ALDB commands used to retrieve ApplianceLinc link database
2012-12-16 13:27:05.062     TX  &nbs p;  02 62 1C F2 EE 1F 2F 00 00 00 0F FF 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 C2
2012-12-16 13:27:05.796     RX  &nbs p;  SENTINSTEONEXT=0F 44 DC 1C F2 EE 1F 2F 00 00 00 0F FF 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 C2 06
2012-12-16 13:27:05.875     RX  &nbs p;  RECEIVEINSTEONRAW=1C F2 EE 0F 44 DC 2B 2F 00
2012-12-16 13:27:05.953     RX  &nbs p;  RECEIVEINSTEONEXT=1C F2 EE 0F 44 DC 11 2F 00 01 01 0F FF 00 A2 00 0F 44 DC FF 00 00 F1
2012-12-16 13:27:16.171     TX  &nbs p;  02 62 1C F2 EE 1F 2F 00 00 00 0F F7 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 CA
2012-12-16 13:27:16.875     RX  &nbs p;  SENTINSTEONEXT=0F 44 DC 1C F2 EE 1F 2F 00 00 00 0F F7 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 CA 06
2012-12-16 13:27:16.984     RX  &nbs p;  RECEIVEINSTEONRAW=1C F2 EE 0F 44 DC 23 2F 00
2012-12-16 13:27:17.125     RX  &nbs p;  RECEIVEINSTEONEXT=1C F2 EE 0F 44 DC 11 2F 00 01 01 0F F7 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 C9
012-12-16 13:27:27.343     TX  &nbs p;  02 62 1C F2 EE 0F 19 00
2012-12-16 13:27:27.640     RX  &nbs p;  SENTINSTEON=0F 44 DC 1C F2 EE 0F 19 00 06
2012-12-16 13:27:27.718     RX  &nbs p;  RECEIVEINSTEONRAW=1C F2 EE 0F 44 DC 2B 01 FF
2012-12-16 13:27:38.171     TX  &nbs p;  02 62 1C F2 EE 0F 19 00
2012-12-16 13:27:38.453     RX  &nbs p;  SENTINSTEON=0F 44 DC 1C F2 EE 0F 19 00 06
2012-12-16 13:27:43.468     RX  &nbs p;  INSTEON TIMEOUT=1C F2 EE
2012-12-16 13:27:43.531     TX  &nbs p;  02 62 1C F2 EE 0F 19 00
2012-12-16 13:27:43.812     RX  &nbs p;  SENTINSTEON=0F 44 DC 1C F2 EE 0F 19 00 06
2012-12-16 13:27:44.328     RX  &nbs p;  RECEIVEINSTEONRAW=1C F2 EE 0F 44 DC 2B 01 FF
2012-12-16 13:27:54.703     TX  &nbs p;  02 62 1C F2 EE 0F 19 00
2012-12-16 13:27:54.984     RX  &nbs p;  SENTINSTEON=0F 44 DC 1C F2 EE 0F 19 00 06
2012-12-16 13:27:55.937     RX  &nbs p;  RECEIVEINSTEONRAW=1C F2 EE 0F 44 DC 2B 01 FF



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Posted: December 16 2012 at 12:48 | IP Logged Quote grif091
After the above was complete I clicked Refresh on Devices tab. ApplianceLinc device entry iEngine column indicates I2CS and Use Ext for ALDB column is checked

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jeffw_00
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Posted: December 16 2012 at 13:07 | IP Logged Quote jeffw_00
Thanks Lee - but I'm unclear on one thing - I believe the steps that are necessary are simply.

1) add device in Devices->Insteon->Units.
2) plug device in. (hard-reset it?)
3) check "status scan" and "enable Pending"
4) wait.

When I did step 3,4 before, it slowly scanned ALL my devices, and the appliance module came up like once every 5-10 minutes. Is that what you did?

My guess is that I'm missing something simple in the above stuff - I look forward to your sage advice 8-}

thanks!!
/j
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grif091
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Posted: December 16 2012 at 13:33 | IP Logged Quote grif091
I add devices using the Devices tab. Click Append which adds a blank entry at the end of the devices list. I enter the ID and Name in the first two columns and Insteon address. Do not know if using your technique covers I2CS, I would think it would.

I do not like the need to use Status Scan to complete the adding of an I2CS device. I do not use Status Scan normally so it can take several hours to run because of link database delta number changes not related to PH. I have taken to checking the Disable column for all but the PLM and I2CS device I am adding to eliminate the Status Scan activity on the other devices. I am hopeful 2.1.5 will not need Status Scan to add an I2CS device.

It is practically impossible to get a device from Smarthome now that is not I2CS so this situation gets larger with each new purchase. That is why I went to an ISY for primary device management. PH is great but it is so far behind the curve in supporting Insteon devices I found it necessary to move to the ISY.


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Posted: December 16 2012 at 13:49 | IP Logged Quote jeffw_00
Ok - I suspect clicking the disables will help a lot. But - while I'm doing this I have a home control system to run - will clicking 'disable' disable the normal operation of the module? I'm not sure I can tolerate that for more than a short period.

I understand what you're saying about PH. I'm sure Dave will catch up. Fortunately I don't buy many devices so I can probably wait. I'm pretty sure the ISY wouldn't give me the flexibiity I need, some of my macros are rather complex.

let me know if you know the total effects of clicking 'disable'. otherwise I might just wait and run it overnight.

best
/j
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