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NorthernAl
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| Posted: January 06 2007 at 17:40 | IP Logged
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I have a successful PowerHome setup that has worked well now for many many months. Uses two controllers (Insteon 2414U plc and a Firecracker for some of the x-10 commands).
My current setup requires x-10 commands to be received on plc to triggers some macros in PowerHome (since I use a couple of different x-10 table top controllers). This has worked for some time. A month ago I noticed that these triggers were not working.
On investigation it looks like the 2414 plc is no longer sending along received x-10 commands to powerhome. They do not appear in the log (I have x-10 logging on and x-10 receive turned on for the plc).
I thought it might be a problem with x-10 commands not getting to plc due to interference but I seem to remember when plc sent x-10 commands in the past, it also saw an incoming x-10 and logged that. That no longer happens. I also moved my x-10 rf receiver to the plug beside the PLC. I have tried resetting PH and the PLC (replugged it).
It appears that all of a sudden the insteon plc decided it would no longer pass on x-10 incoming events to PowerHome. Has anybody seen this? Any ideas of what to try? PLC or PH problem (I have not upgraded PH in a while - still at 1.03.4.7.
I sure wish a company made an IR-to-Insteon transponder (like the comparable x-10 one). Eventually I'd like to drop all my x-10 stuff because the Insteon stuff is much more reliable!
Al
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dhoward
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| Posted: January 08 2007 at 01:23 | IP Logged
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Al,
Ive seen this happen many times. Insteon and X10 work together and then X10 just seems to disappear. Most of the time this is due to having a certain saturation level of Insteon devices. Ive had X10 devices plugged in right next to the PLC and have been unable to receive X10 sometimes. The more Insteon you have, the less and less reliable X10 becomes.
The only other thing I would try is re-downloading the Core Application to the PLC since the passing of X10 signals is directly controlled by that app.
Also, sending X10 with the PLC should not trigger incoming Insteon log commands. Outgoing commands, yes. The only way an incoming command on the PLC would be generated by sending X10 on the PLC would be if you had some two way X10 devices that responded to the outgoing command.
Dave.
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NorthernAl
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| Posted: January 08 2007 at 22:12 | IP Logged
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Thanks Dave.
Funny thing is I have added no new Insteon devices recently. I also tried downloading the core again but it did not seem to help.
The only thing I can think of is some new CFL lights and maybe they are producing so much line noise that the controller is ignoring incoming x-10? (but not incoming insteon)?
I am looking forward to the IR to Insteon bridge/controller that people are talking about and then I can finally switch completely to Insteon and get rid of my x-10 headaches!
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dhoward
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| Posted: January 17 2007 at 21:34 | IP Logged
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Al,
The CFL's are a prime suspect. Ive read of MANY problems with signals being sucked (both X10 and Insteon) by CFL's. You may not notice as much on the Insteon side since Insteon signals are repeated by every other Insteon device and X10 signals are not. You may also be experiencing communication problems with the Insteon and not readily seeing it since Insteon commands are repeated a certain number of times until acknowledged.
What I would do is reset my communication statistics (Device Maint tab) and start monitoring my Insteon reports to see if Im getting a buildup of NAK's or Event 03's (repeat counts).
Dave.
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NorthernAl
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| Posted: January 20 2007 at 12:27 | IP Logged
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Dave
I also suspected the CFLs but everything else about my X10 network works. All outgoing x10 commands work in the house (from two different sources) and all x10 devices turn on and off 99% of the time. So x10 commands are clearly getting through my house wiring.
It seems like just the Insteon controller is not seeing the x10 commands (but used to) or it sees them but is not reporting them. Perhaps it is more senstive to the cfl noise than any other device in the home? But then if all cfls are off (as they are during the day) then shouldn't it start to work again?
Could be a 2414 problem still.
I could not find the Device Maint tab. Also where are the insteon reports were I can see if there lots of NAKs? Thanks
Al
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dhoward
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| Posted: January 20 2007 at 23:10 | IP Logged
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Al,
What version of PowerHome are you running? The "Device Maint" tab is in the Insteon Explorer as well as the "Reports" tab with the communication reports. The new Insteon Explorer is available in the latest beta version 1.03.4.9. If you don't have this version, you'll definately want to upgrade.
If the CFL's are off, then I don't think they would be a problem (however, Im not an expert here). It's possible that you have a PLC problem (you wouldnt be the first). You may also want to re-download the TimerCoreApp to the PLC (Setup tab in the new Insteon Explorer). The receiving of X10 commands is directly controlled by this SmartHome SALAD application in the PLC. Still, from everything that Ive read, the PLC is not a very good X10 communicator. Ive heard numerous reports that it's X10 transmission is weak...however, I cant recall any reports about having weak X10 reception so you may be onto something.
If you want to post a snippet of SDM log where you no X10 activity is on the line, I'll be happy to take a look at it to see if I see anything abnormal.
Dave.
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Viper
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| Posted: January 21 2007 at 09:15 | IP Logged
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X10 reception is not so good on the Insteon PLC (at least mine). I had a working X10 system and installed the PLC and a couple of Insteon devices. The X10 system continued to work, but the PLC wasn't seeing all the X10 traffic. At one point, I was repeating the X10 device signals using the X10 controller to another house code. The X10 controller was producing a strong enough signal that the insteon PLC could see it.
To resolve my problem, I searched the house for sources of noise and put filters on them. Things like UPS's, Computers, Home Entertainment Centers.
Still didn't work. I put my computer UPS into a powerstrip with a filter and that improved things.
The final thing was I started unplugging camera, cell phone, and any other transformer/power supply that wasn't actively in use.
The light on my Insteon PLC quit flashing (due to noise), I can now reliably recieve X10 on the PLC, and have eliminated the X10 controller completely.
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NorthernAl
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| Posted: January 21 2007 at 12:10 | IP Logged
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Viper,
Thanks very much. That is good feedback and advice. It may be more than the CFLs causing problems and I would need to do a search for it. Clearly seems the PLC is not as good at receiving X10 as the x10 devices themselves.
During the day, the led on my insteon PLC flashes a lot. So yes must be lots of noise. At night though when all lights are off and house is 'quiet' the plc led does not flash (but x10 reception still does not work).
I am not ruling out noise on the lines as the problem but it does appear that the plc's ability to receive x10 is not very strong.
I don't want to have to depend on x10 reception but I can't complete my x10 to insteon conversion until someone has a good solution for a univeral remote (harmony, monster) to insteon.
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TonyNo
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| Posted: January 21 2007 at 13:36 | IP Logged
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You could use a USB-UIRT to read IR then set up triggers for the Insteon stuff. Unless you mean RF...
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NorthernAl
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| Posted: January 21 2007 at 14:46 | IP Logged
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Thanks Tony. That is a neat idea.
IR or RF would be fine. If RF it would need to be RF standard supported by a universal remote (and I think z-wave is only option?).
Problem with USB-UIRT is that I don't have a PC with USB anywhere close to where we use the remote. I suppose we could use an IR range extender (I think there is a triangle shaped thing that takes IR, converts to RF, and other end converts back to IR) and put that in front of the USB-UIRT at the PC. Seems a bit kludgy! An IR to insteon device would be great but I have not heard much on the plans for that device. Or a z-wave receiver that produces something that Powerhome could use as input triggers. (I think a Harmony remote and new Monster remote both send z-wave?).
My whole goal to fix my x-10 incoming problem was so that I could use a universal remote and the IR to x10 transceiver. But in the long run it might be best to drop x-10 completely. Or maybe to switch my home to z-wave :-(.
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TonyNo
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| Posted: January 21 2007 at 16:47 | IP Logged
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Heh. I actually use several Powermid's which send IR from the UIRT all over the house.
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NorthernAl
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| Posted: January 21 2007 at 16:51 | IP Logged
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Neat.
Do you use your Powermids the other direction? From a hand-held IR remote control back to the UIRT? And then trigger stuff in Powerhome?
Which UIRT do you use?
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TonyNo
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| Posted: January 21 2007 at 19:14 | IP Logged
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I have not used them the other way 'round. I would if I could do it both ways without tearing a hole in space-time. 
Seems to me that going both ways would reflect forever.
But if you just went the other way, it would be fine.
I use the USB-UIRT.
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dhoward
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| Posted: January 22 2007 at 15:46 | IP Logged
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Al,
Another possibility would be to use a W800RF32A X10 RF receiver combined with a universal remote with X10 RF capability (although I havent really seen any good ones that I like). However, this combination takes the X10 off of the powerline and leaves it strictly RF. Also good for using X10 motion sensors.
I can vouch for the pyramids. They work pretty well in situations where I don't want to fool with hardwiring.
The other thing that Im getting into now is to instead use a WiFi enabled pocket PC with my own 320 x 240 Control Center touchscreens as my ultimate wireless remote. No more point and aim at a specific device and full control of lighting and IR (the IR though of course requires an IR transmitter like a USB-Uirt or in my case I use an Ocelot with SECU-16IR for 16 independent wired IR zones).
Dave.
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Topic: Insteon PLC stops receiving x-10?
