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jpcurcio
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| Posted: February 21 2008 at 02:08 | IP Logged
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I decided to upgrade my HA server in order to save some electricity, and make less noise (sits in the guest bedroom). I went from an old Dell 650 MHz P3 to an Intel BLKD201GLY2 mini-ITX motherboard with a passively cooled Intel Celeron 220. The case I bought has a small, quiet fan, and the only other moving part is a 40 GB laptop HD. I spent about $200, not counting the HD, since I had that laying around.
Anyway, I was getting some intermittent noise issues on a couple of my modules, but it wasn't bad enough to trace down (more of an annoyance than anything). Now that I've switched controllers, I haven't had a single NAK.
So, I guess either one of two things happened... either the power supply is a lot cleaner (most likely), or there was some issue with the USB port on the old machine.
YMMV, but I think this was $200 well spent.
-john
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TonyNo
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| Posted: February 21 2008 at 07:25 | IP Logged
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I had a PC or two that needed to be on a filter to solve some problems.
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BeachBum
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| Posted: February 21 2008 at 08:26 | IP Logged
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What’s even worst is if you plug the computer into a power strip with a MOV (surge protector). I separate mine with a UPS and then a noise filter. Laptops don’t seem to be as bad a problem.
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Pete - X10 Oldie
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jeffw_00
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| Posted: February 21 2008 at 17:13 | IP Logged
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I've had some PC supplies that couldn't be filtered, ended up swapping them for a different brand.
I had one that acted up only after 3 years. So yes, if your system is suddenly etting flakey, start by -unplugging- your PCs and see if it helps
/j
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judetf
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| Posted: September 23 2008 at 07:59 | IP Logged
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I'd love to hear some not-overly-technical discussion on the best way to plug everything together to achieve some device protection, but also to ensure clean Insteon networking.
I'm a novice in the world of electricity, so I'm not even sure what line filtering is all about. I know what power strips are; I know what surge protectors are; and I know what UPSs are. But what's are ideal, good, and/or bad configurations of any/all of these for a PH computer and Insteon devices?
I recently had my PLC go bad and SmartHome advised that it was probably do to a power surge of some sort, since the PLC was plugged directly into a wall outlet. The agent suggested plugging my new PLM into a powerstrip/surge protector, and piggybacking an Insteon Access Point behind it to make sure of good Insteon networking. Is that reasonable? Should the PH computer be plugged into the same strip? Something else?
I'd be much appreciative of people's thoughts on the topic.
Thanks
jtf
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nadler
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| Posted: September 23 2008 at 08:28 | IP Logged
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For some reason my house seems to attract lightening.
I've lost TVs, phones (many), computers, and even a
refrigerator which semi-exploded during a thunderstorm
while my wife and I were sitting at the kitchen table,
so I have a little experience with surge protectors and
power strips. 
Each time something is destroyed I up the protection.
It's 24 years later and I have a super whole house surge
protector wired at the panel. I have 2 lightening rods
embedded in the soil. I have the thickest grounding
wire you've ever seen connected to cold water pipes at
numerous places. I have had the local electrical
company come out and check the connections at the pole
and at my house. I've had electricians check the wiring
inside my house. I have many surge protectors of
various manufactures.....
And with all that, several weeks ago I lost a VOIP modem
and several UPB ports on my computer during a
thunderstorm.
To answer your question though, you have to test each
surge protector to make sure it doesn't interfere with
the Insteon or X-10 signal. I've had expensive ones and
inexpensive ones that added noise to the line. So it's
just trial and error. I have no particular
recommendations on brands or models. I do have an
Access point piggy backed into a lamplinc and that works
fine. I also have a power strip surge proctor piggy
backed into a different lamplinc and that works fine
alto the reverse did not work well (the lamplinc plugged
into the powerstrip.). Based on my experiments I would
not recommend the PH computer being plugged into the
same strip as a PLM. That never worked well for me no
matter what I did.
I am sure others will have particular brands to
recommend. But in general piggybacking works (except
for PC and PLM).
Noel
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BeachBum
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| Posted: September 23 2008 at 10:47 | IP Logged
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I live in Florida where lighting is a common enemy. I had the power company install a whole house surge protector that also protects the phone line plus any cable connections. And on top of that they guarantee it. That being said, last summer the whole street got wiped out by a lighting strike but mine suffer no consequences. After hurricane Ivan came through and flooded me with 8 feet of water I called the power company and informed them their surge protector did not protect me against the “surge”. Complete silence on the line.
I run my PLM 4 receptacles away from where the computers are plugged in which are plugged into a UPS and then a filter. This seems to work fine for me. If I plug the PLC and the PLM into the same circuit I experience all kinds of problems. I have not had a problem running X10 on the same circuit with Insteon. My 2 cents worth…
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Pete - X10 Oldie
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judetf
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| Posted: September 23 2008 at 10:49 | IP Logged
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Thanks for the thoughts. Are there concrete "tests" for trying various combinations? Is there more to it that just plugging things into various outlets and then testing whether every Insteon device on the network continues to work and/or whether PH can control Insteon devices?
What I mean is, how do I gauge different setups and compare them? Is there a way PH can be leveraged to "test" the environment, or is it just a matter of counting NAKs in the Insteon log?
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BeachBum
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| Posted: September 23 2008 at 11:06 | IP Logged
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There are 2 phases to the situation. 1 Being the environment and everyone’s is unique. Like chargers, motors, types of lighting etc. which all can alter the noise levels. 2 Comes problem determination. There are some expensive tools one can use which I’ve used in the past. I think the best way is to use a scope but how many have those in their tool bin of test equipment.
On leveraging PH to test the network, I tried various scenarios but the problem arises when you are caught in the loop and can’t get control to retest. For my Insteon stuff anytime a device change is made I test the whole network against what I think it should be and what the devices think they are at. If there is a problem then I try and fix it. As far as X10 goes that is pretty much a visual thing. I do a reset to all X10 devices with an OFF after the last one is off just incase I have one that missed the command. I do this stuff because I have a very noisy environment.
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Pete - X10 Oldie
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grif091
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| Posted: September 23 2008 at 11:13 | IP Logged
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Under the Insteon Explorer "Reports" tab (same line as Type, Devices, etc) there are several reports that show the comm reliability to each device. If you enable and run device scanning you can see the results of any changes you make pretty quickly.
There have been various forum posts mentioning not plugging a PLC and PLM into the same circuit. Apparently they degrade each other’s signal. I power my PC through a UPS which is plugged into a Filterlinc. I keep a few Filterlincs on hand. If I suspect some device of causing interference I plug it into a Filterlinc to see if things improve. Without a tool to actually monitor and measure line noise and line signal strength of Insteon signals, it is just trial and error. There are several good devices for monitoring and measuring X10 signals. I have a Power Line Signal Analyzer from Monterey Instruments which does a good job for X10 but it is not Insteon aware.
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Lee G
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judetf
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| Posted: September 23 2008 at 13:37 | IP Logged
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Good info; I'll take a look at the reports...
From the description, Filterlinc seems to be just for X10, but I'm guessing that it will (potentially) help in an all-Insteon environment, too?
Out of curiosity, why would you have both a PLC and a PLM in the same environment?
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grif091
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| Posted: September 23 2008 at 14:22 | IP Logged
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The FilterLinc serves two purposes. It isolates devices that are causing noise on the power line. It also prevents devices from absorbing powerline signals. Devices such as some TVs, PCs, and others filter the AC power to insure the respective devices have clean power. In the process of doing that those devices can absorb powerline signals (X10 and Insteon). In a recent post someone started having Insteon reliability problems and it turned out to be a cell phone charger that had recently been installed in an adjacent room.
When the world was young PLCs were the only thing available. Products like Smarthome's current HouseLinc Desktop (and some other software I use) require a PLC to communicate with the power line. Before the PH Alpha and now the PH2 Beta, PLC was the only Insteon interface. Along comes the PLM. There were some issues with the PLM, (hang-ups for example which I think are still there under some conditions, my opinion only) and it has taken time for products like PH to add support for PLMs. I think PLMs will become the primary interface, unless some of the rumors about Smarthome having a new version of the PLC which will surface when HouseLinc Desktop V2 is released (now many months late). All just rumors!! Also, some of the products from Simplehomenet like the EZIO8SA and EZSrve, interface through a PLM. Since I still use my PLC for HouseLinc Desktop V1, PowerHome V2, and some other stuff, and also have an EZSrve at the PC I plug the EZSrve into an extension cord so that it will not be on the same circuit as my PLC.
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Lee G
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BeachBum
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| Posted: September 23 2008 at 17:30 | IP Logged
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To answer the PLC and PLM at the same time is it really not advisable but in my case I have the PLC configured as a backup on another system but not set active. So in essence only one system has powerline control. I have also removed some other old X10 controllers and transferred all their intelligence to PH. The reason is, as Lee has stated, the PLM still has some issues which I have tracked down to unsolicited X10 signals.
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Pete - X10 Oldie
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judetf
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| Posted: September 24 2008 at 10:30 | IP Logged
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Okay, cool.
I discovered last night that part of my recent communication issues were due to my having plugged my PH laptop into an APC powerstrip/surge protector. Since I'd like to keep it protected, based on what you guys are saying I'll probably order a FilterLinc and plug the power strip into that and see if it helps.
Thanks again
jtf
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BeachBum
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| Posted: September 24 2008 at 10:53 | IP Logged
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The FilterLinc gets rid of the noise maker. What’s more important is where the PLC or PLM is plugged into. I have not tried this but it supposedly it is a better protection to the PLM. Plug the PLM into a surge protector and plug one of the Access Points into the PLM. The PLM signal is then transmitted to the receiving Access Point somewhere else which throws it back onto the power line. As far as laptops, my PH laptop is plugged into an outlook on the same circuit that the PLM is. I haven’t found the laptops to be a problem.
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Pete - X10 Oldie
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jeffw_00
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| Posted: September 24 2008 at 16:01 | IP Logged
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makes you wonder why they don't combine access point functionality into the PLM and have the PLM communicate ONLY via Access Points. Unlike the PLM, you can put the Access points wherever you want (so can be optimally placed) on a circuit. Meanwhile, by definition the PLM is in a noisy corner of the powerline since it's next to a PC and related electronics.
/j
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Topic: Inadvertently solved my minor noise issue
