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patrickm
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| Posted: December 08 2009 at 01:28 | IP Logged
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Hello,
I am contemplating adding some 2420M motion sensors to my system but after doing some reading of some previous posts about the 2420M I'm not so sure.
Would I have better reliability with other wireless motion detectors?
I am using the sensors for primarily interior lighting automation. I have a number of dual mode motion sensors that will be connected to PH2 via an Elk M1G. I am adding a Caddx NX-548E Wireless Receiver connected to the ELK for glass break sensors. I could add some wireless motion sensors that way but I have no idea what the latency and reliability will be with the Caddx receiver vs the Insteon wireless.
Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.
-Patrick
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Handman
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| Posted: December 08 2009 at 02:28 | IP Logged
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I haven't converted to Insteon motion sensors yet because they are new and don't have adjustable OFF signals. I use X10 motion sensors (mainly MS13A). I use them as occupancy sensors to turn off lights. In my wiggly kids rooms they are set to send an off signal after four minutes. In the living room - 45 minutes (or thereabouts). As motion sensors they seem fine. Replacing batteries means reprogramming the house/unit codes and settings, but the 2 AAA batteries seem to go six months or more. I have even modified a few of my sensors to drop the dusk sensor to save battery power. The X10 signals are picked up by PH and all actions are within PH. I don't link X10 addresses to my Insteon switches. The only drawback for me is X10. I used to use RR501s, but they are limited to one house code each and I discovered that X10 signals had more noise issues and spreading out the house/unit codes meant fewer miscommunications. I ended up buying a V572 RF transceiver from WGL Designs to more reliably pick up the X10 RF. It is a great unit and I recommend it if you are going to foray into the X10 world. (so much for saving money on X10!) I have the 32 bit version of the 572 which also works with the DS10A and MS10A (Door/windows sensor and motion sensor). The X10 can be purchased very inexpensively, while Insteon is comparatively expensive.
If you don't have X10, I'd stick to the Insteon probably if the motion sensor has the requirements for your needs. The wireless Insteon seems to have better range and is less susceptible to interference. My front gate used to have a DS10, but I got a lot of open signals when nothing happened. The Triggerlinc (Insteon) I use now seems perfect. Pick your poison. Good luck!
Forgot to mention: I also have an ELK and the hard wired motion sensor is by far the most reliable as a multi-state input in PH. If you can wire it - do it!
Edited by Handman - December 08 2009 at 02:30
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TonyNo
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| Posted: December 08 2009 at 07:12 | IP Logged
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You could set up the motions to run through PH (instead of controlling lights) and just ignore the Off's.
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Handman
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| Posted: December 08 2009 at 10:23 | IP Logged
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Yes, any signal from the MS can be handled in PH and when there is motion an ON signal is more reliable (more of them) than the one OFF signal that happens when the motion finally stops. I continue to use the X10 because I have made an investment in it and am too cheap to convert to Insteon. Still, I bet I buy one to see how it works and then make the conversion if I am happy with the results. One advantage the X10 MSs have is some of them are outdoor (weather) approved.
Edit: Just noticed that rev 2 of the Insteon MS allows for programming of more settings, including the OFF signal from 30 secs to 2 hours but you need to use Houselinc 2 software, although I bet Dave can get the commands necessary to adjust these settings. I also see that the motion sensor gets 6 months to 2 years worth of activity depending on the battery. Has anyone seen the various group commands for the 2420?
Edited by Handman - December 08 2009 at 11:19
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grif091
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| Posted: December 08 2009 at 12:09 | IP Logged
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The Motion Sensor issues standard Insteon Group messages. Group 1 On/Off for motion, Group 2 On/Off for dusk/dawn, Group 3 for low battery.
Remember to order at least one Access Point to receive the MS RF signal. Might as well order two for phase coupling as once you start with Insteon it is like eating peanuts. Hard to have just one Insteon device.
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Lee G
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Handman
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| Posted: December 08 2009 at 14:31 | IP Logged
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Lee, I only have one Access Point, but I have four of the old SignaLinks. The SignaLinks handle the phase coupling and the single Access Point picks up the Insteon RF. Of course if I start buying these 2420 motion sensors, I'll probably need another Access Point to get better RF reception!
Anyone know how Houselinc programs the motion sensors? Presumably the unit is put in linking mode and then Insteon commands are issued to program it? Developers?
Edited by Handman - December 08 2009 at 14:40
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grif091
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| Posted: December 08 2009 at 16:16 | IP Logged
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The links are written with Insteon Extended messages as the Motion Sensor did not implement Peek/Poke. That is why Powerhome cannot write the link records in the Motion Sensor as it does not support Extended messages yet. Also note that SignaLinc RF devices do not handle Extended messages so as your Insteon network grows with newer devices that use more and more Extended messages, a second Access Point will be needed to move those Extended messages across 120V legs.
Not sure if the Motion Sensor options are set with Extended messages or Standard messages but you do have to wake up the device before it can receive RF messages.
As you noted in your earlier post it takes someone with a subscription to the proprietary information to know what commands to issue to set those Motion Sensor options or someone with a Motion Sensor and HouseLinc 2 to trace the Insteon commands issued by HouseLinc 2. I think the debug trace in HouseLinc 2 will show the commands that are being issued.
Edited by grif091 - December 08 2009 at 16:17
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Lee G
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smarty
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| Posted: December 08 2009 at 16:17 | IP Logged
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I happen to have one example of Insteon and one example of hardwired motion sensors that I use for room entry lighting. The hardwired sensor comes into PH from my Elk system.
To be honest, I really can't tell the difference. Both have very good speed (no difference as far as I can tell). As soon as I see the red mostion sense dot, the room light is on (less than 1/2 second....imperceptable to me).
Edited by smarty - December 08 2009 at 16:19
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jpcurcio
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| Posted: December 08 2009 at 17:01 | IP Logged
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I'm using a couple of them, and have no issues. Instead of
using the "OFF", I create a timed event to turn off the
triggered lights with whatever delay I choose. Subsequent
triggering of the motion detector will then modify the
timed event to increase the time to the amount of delay.
Once I figured out the logic, it was easy to implement and
works well.
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Topic: 2420M motion sensor - Bad Idea?
