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smarty
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| Posted: March 03 2011 at 19:15 | IP Logged
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I finally ditched my Insteon PLC for a PLM on my Elk M1. I replaced the old PLC with an Insteon 2413S PLM (Smarthome didn't seem to be offering any other type of serial PLM's other than dual band...which this is).
While I CAN load individual Insteon addresses into the M1XSP (addresses 1-192), and control them properly, I have not been having any luck with loading groups into XSP position 193 and above.
Here is how I ATTEMPTED to do this....what am I doing wrong?
From within PH, I have set up the Elk 2413S Insteon controller as a regular Insteon device (it is not set up in the PH controller area as a controller. I have another PLM that is set up as the Powerhome controller).
The PH device type is 2412S (Grif says 2413s and 2412s are the same to PH). Within the Insteon Explore-Links tab, I have the 2413s device set as the "current device". I then set up "responder" groups for the 2413s.
It was my belief that the Elk XSP 193 would correspond the the 2413S group 1, and 194 would correspond to group 2 etc.
What am I missing? When I turn on elk group 193, my Insteon group does not respond.
I have double checked my XSP jumper settings (S5 is important for groups). I am a bit concerned because the Elk literature makes not reference to this newer dual band PLM.
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grif091
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| Posted: March 03 2011 at 20:39 | IP Logged
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When a 2413S is used as a PH2 Controller using the Serial interface it is the same as a 2412S.
When defined as an individual device that PH2 is managing the link database over the powerline a 2413S is NOT the same as a 2412S. A 2412S supports 2000+ link records with the link database starting at 3FF8. A 2413S supports 1000+ links with the link database starting at 1FF8.
Define a new Device Type entry for a 2413S using the same information as a 2412S with 1 exception. Rather than a Mem Top value of 16,384, use a Mem Top value of 8,192. This is the adjustment needed to use correct link database addresses. A Reinit is required after defining a new Device Type. After changing the Device entry from 2412S to 2413S all the link records will have to be rewritten as they are currently at the wrong memory address.
I have no information on what Group numbers Elk uses for an Insteon Group.
Edited by grif091 - March 03 2011 at 20:41
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smarty
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| Posted: March 03 2011 at 22:00 | IP Logged
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That answer sure seems promising....so I tried it.
My 2412S has:
DevCat 3
SubCat 5
ProdKey 12
Mem Top 0 <= was expecting to see 16384 here
DB type Linear
I duplicated my 2412 device type and set the Mem Top to 8192.
Did a re-init, and then redid all the links...still no luck.
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grif091
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| Posted: March 03 2011 at 22:15 | IP Logged
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Do the links show verified in both columns?
What devices are defined as responders?
If the links are verified there is a mismatch between what Elk requires and what is defined. PLM Group commands (0261) are the same for a 2412 and 2413. Does the Elk provide any diagnostic information such as a trace of the PLM commands it is issuing and the PLM response.
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smarty
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| Posted: March 03 2011 at 22:41 | IP Logged
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Yes, the links in the 2413 show verified in both columns.
Presently, I have two differnt switchlinc lights set up as group 1 and group 2 within the 2413 PLM.
As far as I know, Elk doesn't provide much for logs, but I can see the X-10 commands (from the PH log) coming out of the 2413.
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grif091
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| Posted: March 04 2011 at 02:42 | IP Logged
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Add the PH2 Controller PLM as a Responder for Group 1 and Group 2. If the Elk is issuing a Group 1 On/Off or Group 2 On/Off it will show in the PH2 Insteon Raw Log and Event Log.
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smarty
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| Posted: March 04 2011 at 09:01 | IP Logged
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OK, I have added the PH PLM controller into the groups 1,2, 193 and 194 of the ELK 2413S. See the inserted pict.
I then sequentially turned On (and then Off) Elk lights 1,2,193 and 194. The PH log is then shown.
It looks like only Light #2 (on) shows any PH PLM activity (even though all my links look OK).
In playing with this more, I found that the PH PLM activity seemed fairly unrepeatable/hit or miss. I am really scratchting my head now.
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smarty
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| Posted: March 04 2011 at 09:12 | IP Logged
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This is what i get when I toggle Elk lighting #2:
Edited by smarty - March 04 2011 at 09:29
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smarty
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| Posted: March 04 2011 at 10:34 | IP Logged
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OK, I think I know what is going on with Elk #2 toggle (above).
Elk #2 is linked to "SfRm Lights" and my PH PLM (as shown in the above picts).
Recall that I did say that I can control individual Insteon devices. I could say that because I loaded the "SfRm Lts" insteon address into the XSP as Elk's #1 lighting address. That was the only insteon address loaded into the XSP.
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grif091
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| Posted: March 04 2011 at 11:34 | IP Logged
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I have not seen any Insteon activity produced by Elk in the Event Log. Of course the PH PLM will not pass Insteon traffic to PH2 that is not directed to the PH PLM (normal Insteon stuff). Note that the Event Log Report display is static. It does not get updated dynamically when being displayed as it is a Report. The Control | Powerhome Status display shows the Event Log dynamically as the entries are generated.
The Insteon Group activity sent to the PH Controller PLM should be rock solid if the Elk is sending Group commands, the Elk PLM has the PH PLM in the Group (as the post does indicate), the PH PLM has the Elk PLM defined for the Group, and powerline communication is okay.
Is the X10 traffic something the Elk is generating independent of your testing the Insteon device definitions. It is present in both the event logs posted but I don’t know how that relates to Elk control of Insteon devices.
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smarty
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| Posted: March 04 2011 at 16:18 | IP Logged
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With respect to the event log, an 'F5' refresh was done to make sure I was seeing an updated log (prior to the screen shot).
I am not sure why there is no insteon traffic either.
I found this link useful in the understanding of setting up groups for the Elk to control (last two posts in the thread):
Link
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smarty
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| Posted: March 04 2011 at 16:34 | IP Logged
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Here are the 4 pages of the Elk XSP manual that deals with Insteon. While it is an interesting read, it doesn't seem to answer the questions posed here.
2011-03-04_163138_M1XSP_Lighting&Thermostat_Interface_Serial _Port_Exp1a.zip
2011-03-04_163208_M1XSP_Lighting&Thermostat_Interface_Serial _Port_Exp1b.zip
2011-03-04_163242_M1XSP_Lighting&Thermostat_Interface_Serial _Port_Exp2.zip
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smarty
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| Posted: March 08 2011 at 08:54 | IP Logged
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Well, I got around to switching back to my original 2414S (Serial PLC controller). After making the required "S7" jumper change in the XSP, here is screen capture of the log file of what is coming out of the XSP when I turn Elk lighting #193 On. As expected, Elk Group #193 corresponds to the PLC's group #1 (and in my case I had group #1 is set up to control the "gate" and "saferoom" lights). To me, this looks like it works as expected...although I am still not sure why the X-10 command is there.
So, this seems to somewhat confirm that the Insteon 2413S Dual Band serial PLM does NOT handle PLC/PLM groups in the same manner.....
I guess I could move my PowerHome PLM to the Elk and use the dual band PLM for PowerHome.....boy, what a hassle...
Edited by smarty - March 08 2011 at 08:55
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grif091
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| Posted: March 08 2011 at 10:34 | IP Logged
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A 2412S and 2413S have the same command set. A Group command to a 2412S is the same command as would be issued to a 2413S. If a 2412S works with Elk a 2413S has to work from a command perspective. The difference between the 2412S and the 2413S is the size of the link database and therefore its starting address. If you find the 2412S works with Elk but the 2413S does not it is related to where the link records are being written.
Of course the commands between a 2414 PLC and 2412/2413 PLM are very different. Is there some reboot at the Elk to have it switch from a 2414 definition to a 2412/2413 definition.
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smarty
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| Posted: March 08 2011 at 13:50 | IP Logged
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grif091 wrote:
Is there some reboot at the Elk to have it switch from a 2414 definition to a 2412/2413 definition.
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To switch the Elk fom PLC mode (2414) to PLM mode (2412/13) requires that you only move jumper "S7". The jumper move is to be done while the Elk system is powered down. Upon power up, the Elk XSP control module is ready to go (it likely DOES go through some sort of start-up process upon power up).
Now, I gues the thing to try is to move the dual band PLM to PowerHome and move my exisiting PowerHome PLM (2412) to the Elk.
Hopefully PowerHome's "Replace Device" functionality will make this not too painful.
QUESTION:
With respect to "sending out" insteon commands from the dual band 2413S PLM in PowerHome, in a post above, you mentioned that I should duplicate the 2412S settings and set the Mem Top to 8192.
Since I do have a fair number of PLM groups that I would like to keep (and that are already defined in my 2412), does the changed memory locations/size effect my ability to keep the PLM groups if I change to the 2413 and do a "replace device"? Thoughts?
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grif091
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| Posted: March 08 2011 at 14:03 | IP Logged
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When switching PH2 controllers I would clear and then Add Full to the new PLM. Assuming PH2 is aware of all the definitions they should all be written into the new PLM. PH2 goes through the Serial interface to manage the PLM link database of the Controller so memory size is not an issue. Having the correct memory size and therefore link database start address is necessary when reading/writing the link database over the powerline.
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Topic: 2413S PLM and Elk
