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Gerry863
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| Posted: April 11 2011 at 12:27 | IP Logged
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I have been wrestling with PH for 3 days now and can't seem to master things that are so intuitive in the free home automation software I have. I have more X-10 devices than Insteon and they work just fine but I thought I'd wade into to the new technology of Insteon. I've read the Quick Start guide and the manual but can barely get anywhere especially on the X-10 side.
I first was faced with the fact that I have virtually no types of X-10 devices that are on the short list of items. I've been experimenting with using the suggested types but so far no luck.
Then as I do with my free software I went to enter my X-10 addresses. Many devices I have use the same House and unit code but when I try to do it in PH it doesn't allow it. For example many of my outside lights have address A5. PH doesn't allow it. I could enter a different house and unit code for each but I don't have room on my old fashion Smarthome remotes then which I use a lot.
When I enter items using the Wizards I'm not sure if it goes into the controller or not. With my free software there is a button to download to the controller and a button to download back to the computer to save as backup. Very intuitive but I have no clue how PH does all this.
I realize this is far below the items on this board where members are talking about macros and scripting and other esoteric items but maybe there should be a general topic called PowerHouse for Dummies.
We're all ignorant only on different subjects --Mark Twain
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grif091
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| Posted: April 11 2011 at 16:55 | IP Logged
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I has been many years since the house was full of X10 so the perspective and memory can be faulty. A few X10 floods are all that are left. Everything else has been converted to Insteon.
With X10 devices addressed by House/Unit what necessitates defining multiple devices with the same house/unit. They cannot be manipulated individually.
Using Powerhome Explorer | Devices | X10 | Types, additional X10 device types can be defined if one of the existing types does not have the required characteristics.
I used an Insteon based controller with X10 capability which does not contain any X10 configuration information in the controller itself. What X10 controller are you using that contains X10 device definitions.
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Lee G
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BeachBum
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| Posted: April 11 2011 at 19:10 | IP Logged
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You can have as many same H/UC as you want but you only defined them once to PH. But that has always been true for all the different controllers I’ve had over the years. The controllers send out the H/UC and the association of these to a name is used once if that makes any sense. For instance I have my entire window Christmas lights defined as A1 and I call them Xmas and they all come on with the one command. If I want to differentiate them then I have some that are A2. The same applies to Insteon but with added capabilities like I can define different devices within a group and again issue one command to group.
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Pete - X10 Oldie
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Gerry863
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| Posted: April 11 2011 at 22:23 | IP Logged
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grif091 wrote:
With X10 devices addressed by House/Unit what necessitates defining multiple devices with the same house/unit. They cannot be manipulated individually.
Using Powerhome Explorer | Devices | X10 | Types, additional X10 device types can be defined if one of the existing types does not have the required characteristics.
I used an Insteon based controller with X10 capability which does not contain any X10 configuration information in the controller itself. What X10 controller are you using that contains X10 device definitions.
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I have outdoor lights that are controlled by a variety of X-10 devices. They each have the same HC/UC. For example one set is controlled by a wall switch, another set is controlled by a RD110 fixture dimmers (where one has electricity but no switch). I set both HC/UC to B5 and when my freebee software executed turning on B5 they both went on. In PH I set one to B5 and it wouldn't let me set the other to B5. I could set it to another HC/UC but my hand held controller is full. I can do a work around but it seems strange that I have to.
I use the 2414U PowerLinc Controller USB with lots of Insteon devices defined and just a few X-10
I have been trying out the method you suggested for defining a new X-10 type. The problem is that I don't know what to check off or not. So far I've not been successful.
I realize things will get better the more that I start replacing X-10s with Insteons but it isn't an inexpensive venture to do so.
Thanks for answering.
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grif091
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| Posted: April 11 2011 at 22:53 | IP Logged
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With X10 putting B5 On/Off on the powerline should turn On/Off all the X10 devices with that House/Unit code regardless of whether they are explicitly defined to PH2.
The 2414U PLC is very old technology. The PLC has been replaced by the PLM (2412) which is old enough itself that it has been replaced with the Dual Band PLM (2413). Many Insteon devices use Extended commands for configuration. Some require Extended commands to read/write link records (motion sensor and triggerlinc are examples). The PLC does not support Extended commands.
I think a new X10 Type definition requires a File | Reinit to make it available for use.
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Lee G
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Gerry863
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| Posted: April 12 2011 at 10:58 | IP Logged
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Well I can't get most of the X-10 devices to work using PH. I can, using a old time hand held X-10 remote, an old time X-10 Maxi-controller, or the newer ControlLinc. PH has taken something very simple and dependable and made it into something that is difficult to get to work. I guess it has to be to due the types that you have to select that are interfering and I can't seem to either find one in the small list provided or define one myself that corrects the situation. X-10 just worked without a hitch without this wrinkle that PH uses.
I am ordering some Insteons ( 2 cost $160+ so I'm faced with ordering 16 more which might mean an outlay of $1400 in the end)but some devices are going to be tough to replace because of location. This is a fair amount of money to spend to get something to work that really works fine.
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grif091
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| Posted: April 12 2011 at 11:11 | IP Logged
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Is the environment comparable? Is your existing X10 software issuing X10 powerline commands from a central location? If so what powerline controller is being used and finally is that central location the same as where the PH2 PLC is plugged?
X10 protocol is very simple. The basics do not vary from device type to device type. Some X10 devices support extended X10 commands but basic X10 On and Off is common across the X10 line.
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Lee G
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BeachBum
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| Posted: April 12 2011 at 11:13 | IP Logged
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Maybe we need to get to the basics. When you say “I can't get most of the X-10 devices to work using PH” what are you doing in PH to switch them on/off ? Are you using a macro or device control?. When you defined the x10 device what type did you define? Instead of the wizard try going to Devices and confirm under X10- Units that your device is defined correctly. You only need to define it once. When you tell it to go ON all B5s should go on at once. When everything else fails we can go to the logs and see why.
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BeachBum
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| Posted: April 12 2011 at 11:14 | IP Logged
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Lee, your are still typing faster....
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dhoward
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| Posted: April 12 2011 at 14:55 | IP Logged
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Gerry,
Im sorry to hear you're having such problems. I see you're getting alot of great help from Lee and Pete but thought I would try add some thoughts as well. I suspect that its something simple with a device definition or possibly a problem with your x10 controller or a communications problem.
On the X10 Types screen, all of the checkboxes only control how PowerHome will update the actual status of a device setup as that type. Nothing in the setup will effect the ability to send X10 commands. So when you send an X10 On command to B5, this command will be sent no matter what the x10 device type is set to.
To try and help troubleshoot your problem, the first thing I would do is open Help|About|Controllers and verify that it says your X10 controller is connected. I see that you're using a 2414U PLC so you'll need to make sure that the SmartHome SDM software is running (the little yellow "T" icon in your system tray). If everything looks good with your controller, open the Palm Pad window (Menu Control|Palm Pad or Alt+F7) and select your PLC controller from the dropdown at the bottom of the window. You should then be able to set the housecode and press any of the unitcode buttons to send on/off commands via the PLC. You may also want to have the realtime status log up in the background (Control|PowerHome Status or Alt+F8) to see the X10 commands are being sent. Regardless of type or even any X10 devices being defined, the Palm Pad window should just send the X10 commands and you should see your devices responding. If they dont, then there is most likely a communications issue (the PLC is rumored to not send a very strong X10 signal).
Let me know where that gets you and we'll proceed from there.
Dave.
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Gerry863
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| Posted: April 12 2011 at 16:31 | IP Logged
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I think, dhoward, that your suggestions may do have helped solved the problem. I'll check and see if the timed sequences work today and tomorrow.
1) SDM may not have been on. I looked at the left side of the tray and couldn't find it. I did a search and found just Device Manager (not Smarthome DM) so I double clicked it. I decided to look at the right side of the tray and the T was there. Was it always there? Don't know.
Is it supposed to start up when PowerHome starts up?.
It must be an early version since it was something like v. 1.01xxx.
Should I try to get a newer version and where?
I wasn't getting any response by using the Palm Pad because it wasn't turning thing on or off and nothing showed on the PowerHome status window. Something always bothered me when I used the Wizard to set up the X-10 devices. I clicked the X-10 controller when setting up X-10 devices. I know I have an Insteon controller but in my mind, since the 2414 controlled X-10 devices I thought it was acting also as an X-10 controller. I switched the controller for all X-10 devices to Insteon. So was I being dumb or overthinking the situation? Anyhow I can now control the X-10s from the 2414U Palm Pad and will see how the timing sequences work tonight or tomorrow. Anyhow thank you and the others who have contributed to my dilemma. I'll report tomorrow if I can.
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BeachBum
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| Posted: April 12 2011 at 17:01 | IP Logged
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Your controller should be the one listed as Insteon DM. Yes that controller does X10 and Insteon. If you click on setting everything should be checked except status check, update on Ack Only, Send PLC Group Cleanups and allow Link Spidering. That doesn’t mean they cannot be checked on but they don’t need to be. All your defined devices should have that as your controller whether they are Insteon or X10. If you can now control your devices from Powerhome (PH) then your DM is probably fine. There are 2 versions that come with PH. In most cases the one that installs will work and should automatically start with PH. The problems we have had in the past is sometimes DM does not shutdown easily.
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grif091
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| Posted: April 12 2011 at 17:02 | IP Logged
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The Controller type for a 2414 PLC is "Insteon DM". Under Powerhome Explorer | Setup | Controllers, the controller type can be verified. PH2 will load SDM3 when the controller is correctly defined. It will not know to load SDM3 if the controller is not defined as a PLC.
2.1.4 is the latest release. On the PH forum under General there is a topic announcing the availability of 2.1.2. That is installed first. In that same topic there are links to a Zip file for 2.1.3 which is applied over 2.1.2. In that same topic there are links to a Zip file for 2.1.4 which is applied over 2.1.3 to bring the install up to 2.1.4.
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Lee G
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Gerry863
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| Posted: April 15 2011 at 09:16 | IP Logged
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I had to go away for a couple days and was anxious to see how the system worked. In the event log it showed that no timing sequences worked at all! I had to take my computer, a laptop, with me and then the horrible thought occurred to me: Does the program have to be running on the computer to work? It doesn't say anything in the literature about this and, if so, is pretty useless for my purposes. My "free" program doesn't have this limitation and then I thought that this can't be. It has to be due to something else. I tried to read the full manual but that talked about something called ELK a lot and the old version of the manual was pretty useless.
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BeachBum
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| Posted: April 15 2011 at 09:40 | IP Logged
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Unfortunately you have to have the program running to be able to work. The only way you can operate without the system running is you download your activities to a controller that can operate stand alone. PH is not designed that way.
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Pete - X10 Oldie
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Gerry863
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| Posted: April 15 2011 at 09:44 | IP Logged
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Bummer! Any recommendations on software that does that? I'm a little surprised since almost everyone I know owns a laptop as their only computer and purchasing a computer just to run PH seems a little expensive
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BeachBum
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| Posted: April 15 2011 at 10:21 | IP Logged
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It’s not so much the software as it is the controller. The controller has to have the ability to store the schedules and timings and be able to execute them without the computer attached. I know when I first was looking at replacing what I was doing, which was stand alone, I was very hesitant in dedicating a system to the function. But that has turned out to be no problem at all. Almost any cheap computer will work or the one you use all the time. At that time I didn’t turn off my computer so that was the decision maker. The other reason I went with PH is there is virtually nothing I can’t do with the software in my environment. Standalone controllers have limitations PH has none that I would implement. Someone might be able to help you with which one as I’ve been away from it too long to know what is available now.
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Gerry863
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| Posted: April 15 2011 at 10:29 | IP Logged
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OK, thanks BB. I really use my notebook a lot when i travel so purchasing an inexpensive computer seems to be my option which is really not very palatable. I wish Smarthome had said that it their description of it like they do for mControl software:"Your PC will need to remain on in order to execute timed commands and triggered events." I noticed now that if my computers enters sleep mode it also doesn't execute any commands.
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grif091
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| Posted: April 15 2011 at 10:50 | IP Logged
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Smarthome's HouseLinc2, Powerhome2, and many other software based Home Automation packages require the software, and therefore the PC to be running 24/7. None of the newer Smarthome powerline controllers have the ability to execute macro or timed sequences standalone. The Smarthome powerline controllers are designed as a software to powerline interface only.
The Smarthome SmartLinc is a standalone controller capable of executing timed events. It cannot execute device initiated events.
The Universal Devices ISY is a standalone controller with a broad range of capabilities. It is configured and programmed through a computer, then runs totally standalone.
The Smarthome SmartLinc is closest to the functional capability of the old PLC with the additional ability to use a wed enabled phone or PDA to control the SmartLinc remotely.
The UDI ISY can be used remotely as well as interface to an ELK security system, other devices that can be accessed over an IP network, send email alerts, too many functions to list here.
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BeachBum
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| Posted: April 15 2011 at 10:56 | IP Logged
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Thanks for the input. I agree I also couldn’t find the wording explicitly and I’ll mention it to the powers to be. I guess it depends on where one is coming from on the interpretation. Good luck on your venture and do hope you’ll take a second look at Powerhome. BTW the last standalone I used was JDS Technologies.
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Pete - X10 Oldie
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Topic: Too new to even be a newbie
