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kemporama
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| Posted: August 04 2011 at 16:18 | IP Logged
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I have set up an "insteon comm fail" trigger to notify me whenever a device fails. This part works ok. The thing I don't understand is that 98% of the time it happens to the same motion sensor. It goes into failed status almost every time motion is sensed when I walk by it. I have an access point in its own plug about 10 feet away from the motion sensor, so I now have 3 access points covering my 2 power phases, so it should not be a probblem with it not being able to talk with the rest of the PH system. I've even switched this motion sensor out with a brand new one recently, and it seems to be doing the exact same thing, so it doesn't look like it's a hardware problem, more like something on the software side. Does anyone have any thoughts of what i can do to make these failures stop?
Thanks.
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grif091
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| Posted: August 04 2011 at 16:28 | IP Logged
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What is being used to indicate a comm failure with this motion sensor?
A motion sensor cannot be communicated with as other devices because it is asleep.
Edited by grif091 - August 04 2011 at 16:30
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Lee G
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grif091
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| Posted: August 04 2011 at 17:16 | IP Logged
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Perhaps the other motions sensors are marked Disabled so that backgound activity such as Query cannot be issued to a sleeping device.
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Lee G
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kemporama
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| Posted: August 04 2011 at 22:35 | IP Logged
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I have a trigger formula set up of type "Insteon comm fail" for any device that changes to failed status then emails me a notification. I just checked and all the motion sensors including this one are already set to disabled in the devices screen.
I have a macro set up to run when the motion is triggered, that controls whether the lights go on or off depending on the time of day rather than having the motion directly linked to just a light. At the end of the macro I have a line set up to turn the motion sensor off to reset it back to be able to detect motion. Is there maybe a difference in sending an "off" to it verses a "fast off?" I just noticed that another motion that I have set up I use a fast off and in this one I had a plain off. I just switched it to be a fast off, maybe that can make a difference?
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grif091
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| Posted: August 05 2011 at 02:18 | IP Logged
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These are Insteon motion sensors? The Insteon RF motion sensor does not maintain any internal status so an Off or Fast Off has no affect on the motion sensor short of generating a comm error as the motion sensor has likely already gone back to sleep. Commands issued from macros are foreground activity so the Disable does not stop PH2 from sending the Off/Fast Off message.
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Lee G
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kemporama
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| Posted: August 05 2011 at 09:33 | IP Logged
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Yup, they are Insteon sensors.
The reason I started doing the off commands at the end of the macros was because if I didn't, when I look in the device status screen the motion sensor's status would always be yellow indicating that it detected motion, and wouldn't go back to "no motion." Do I need to be worried bout the motions being left in the "motion detected on" status for PH to let triggers work and kick off macros in PH? It's no big deal to me if they always are in the yellow on that screen, I just don't want it to mess up or prevent something else from working.
What is the recomendation for jumper 4 on the motion sensors, as far as using on only mode? I use on only for all my motions, and that's why I was trying to send the off commands out, but maybe I shouldn't be.
It's odd that it lets me send the off commands sometimes to this motion with no problem, and almost always to my other motions with no problem. Oh well.
Edited by kemporama - August 05 2011 at 09:36
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BeachBum
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| Posted: August 05 2011 at 09:44 | IP Logged
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My turn to jump in. I do extensive Insteon failure detection including the PLM. I also do exactly what you do to the Motion Sensor to clear the Device screen but I don’t use that as an indicator of a problem. In respect to failed Insteon status how are you testing that?
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grif091
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| Posted: August 05 2011 at 11:43 | IP Logged
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The use of On Only is normally dictated by the particular implementation. When the motion sensor is linked directly to a responder to avoid any latency associated with program/macro execution, the Off command is normally suppressed (On Only mode) to prevent the rather rigid Off command from turning Off the responder. The Program/macro uses whatever intelligence is needed for the particular situation.
The PH2 status is a reflection of the last command received from the motion sensor. It does not affect how triggers function.
Motion sensors, like all RF only devices, turn the RF circuitry off very soon after sending a command. This is done to preserve battery life. There is a small window of time (a few hundred milliseconds) where the RF device circuitry remains on such that it can respond to commands. This design point allows an application to send configuration and/or link record changes immediately after receiving an On command. If implemented it avoids the need to unmount the motion sensor and press the Set button to establish linking mode so that updates can be written to the device.
There is no Off/Fast Off function in the motion sensor. If awake the device accepts the command and does nothing. PH2 marks the status of the device Off as that is the last command associated with the device. If the motion sensor has gone back to sleep before the Off/Fast Off is sent a comm error occurs because the device in not aware of any commands at that point.
There is no need to change the PH2 status. You can go back to using On/Off commands because there are no responders linked directly to the motion sensor. The Off command can be moved to the first thing the macro does rather than the last. There is a slight possibility of getting a comm error anyway if the PC is slow to run the macro because of system loading.
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Lee G
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kemporama
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| Posted: August 07 2011 at 23:42 | IP Logged
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Pete- The only testing that I'm doing is with the trigger I mentioned a few messages up. I have it set to look for [any] device and send me an email if it fails. Are you doing failure checks for your hardware differently than I am that doesn't cause you to get the failures on the motions as I am? I know I could go thru and set up a separate trigger for each device but that would clutter up my triggers screen horribly.
Lee- Thanks for the explanation. I'm glad to know that the motions will still detect new motion and trigger actions even though their statuses may not be updating. I'll give your suggestion a try about moving the off command to the top of the macro to see what happens out of curiousity.
Thanks!
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Topic: Comm fails for motion sensors
