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Ktulu
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| Posted: July 15 2008 at 12:37 | IP Logged
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I'm trying to set up a secondary button on a KPL to control and display the status of a garage door via an EZIO.
I have an EZIO2X4 and a magnetic switch. Here's how it's currently set up...
KPL button 6 (of 8) is set to non-toggle mode. When pressed with its LED lit it will trigger the EZIO's relay and the EZIO will turn the relay back off in 3 seconds.
When the magnetic switch is triggered it turns off the LED on button 6 to indicate that the door is closed.
Here's the problem...
Non-toggle buttons send on or off depending on the state of their LED. LED on = send on, etc. With the button showing the status of the door (open = LED on, etc.) pressing the button sends an on or an off depending on where the door is. This is no good for the EZIO as it needs to always be sent an on.
Finally, some questions...
Can PowerHome somehow overcome the limitation in the KPL's non-toggle mode and allow me to send on's regardless of the state of the button's LED?
I think I know the answer to this question as I doubt it's possible for PowerHome to directly overcome a firmware or hardware limitation in the switch but one can hope.
As a work around I'm thinking I could set up a couple of triggers in PowerHome to trap (so to speak) the on's and off's coming from the KPL. The triggers would send an on to the EZIO regardless of what the KPL button is sending.
These triggers need a formula to turn the EZIO's relay on and, for the life of me, I can't figure out what function to use or what to send.
Maybe there's a better way to accomplish this. Any ideas?
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Jeff
"Assiduus usus uni rei deditus et ingenium et artem saepe vincit" - Cicero
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Ktulu
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| Posted: July 16 2008 at 20:37 | IP Logged
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Woooo Hoooooo!!!
I figured out how to trigger the relays on an EZIO with PowerHome. I'm very excited. This opens up a bunch of possibilities.
I used the following formula that I found in an old post. I don't fully understand it, as the documentation seems to be... incomplete, but it accomplishes what I want it to do. Someone please let me know if there are any possible ill effects associated with using this.
ph_ctlrcmd("INSTEON_PLC",5000,0,0,"!sendinsteonraw=00 00 00 06 4E D2 0F 48 01","")
Where...
"INSTEON_PLC" = the name of my PLC. Not in the Insteon Explorer under devices but in the PowerHome Explorer under setup/controllers. This stumped me for a little while.
5000,0,0 = ????,?,?. I have no idea what this means. According to the help file the 5000 is a command but that's all it says. I assume it has do something with Insteon.
"!sendinsteonraw=00 00 00 06 4E D2 0F 48 01" = Seems fairly self explanatory. This is the only part of the whole thing that I kind of understand. 06 4E D2 is the address of my EZIO, 0F is the flag, 48 is cmd1, and 01 is cmd2. cmd2 represents the relay number. A zero in cmd2 is off for all relays.
Edited by Ktulu - July 16 2008 at 20:38
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Jeff
"Assiduus usus uni rei deditus et ingenium et artem saepe vincit" - Cicero
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doctorjerry
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| Posted: October 07 2008 at 11:23 | IP Logged
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Jeff,
Do you have a formula to read the inputs of the EZIO2X4.
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Jerome
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jbbtex
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| Posted: October 07 2008 at 11:38 | IP Logged
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I'm not at home right now so I can't give you exactly what I use, but whenever the EZIO inputs change state, the EZIO will transmit a broadcast status message.
In PH you can create a trigger that will fire on a broadcast from the EZIO.
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Brady
"Never tell people how to do things. Tell them what to do and they will surprise you with their ingenuity." - Gen. George S. Patton
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Lenny
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| Posted: October 07 2008 at 17:44 | IP Logged
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I'd be interested if you could read the inputs as well.
I tried 2 of the EZIO2x4's purchased from Smarthome and both had old firmware and issues.
Talking to simplehomenet, support admitted to bugs causing links to be lost in the EZIO if you make changes to the relay timers after you link.... Did they fix that?
How does your implementation work? Are you still in nontoggle mode? ON or OFF?
Does the keypad status reflect the input state of the input (Magnetic Switch)?
My goal was to have the keypad reflect state by monitoring input. This way when the normal opener number pad is used to open the OHD the keypadlincs are updated. Also would like to turn on/off lights via PH Trigger or hard links in EZIO.
It would also be nice to use the Insteon RF Remote to open the door. For 1 it’s secure and I have a hillside ranch. The Access Points above the hill side is great because the standard garage opener you have to be right in front of the door.
When I tried the EZIO2X4, it was completely unreliable. It kept loosing it marbles when power cycled and for $130 I expect better.
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grif091
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| Posted: October 07 2008 at 18:53 | IP Logged
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Lenny, I have three EZIO2X4s purchased from Simplehomenet at firmware level v25. Have two installed in the garage and one in the house. They have been solid, even with some power glitches living in a rural setting. What level firmware is your EZIO2X4?
I have posted a document on the Simplehomenet wiki under the EZIO2X4 device describing my use of the EZIO2X4 for my garage project. The garage is detached and I use a Keypadlinc in the house to display the open/close state of the garage bay doors as well as remotely control the door openers. The 2X4s have worked well for me.
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Lee G
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Lenny
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| Posted: October 07 2008 at 22:45 | IP Logged
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I ordered 1 smarthome couldn't do anything but point me to simplehomenet... ultimately they sent me another and had the same results.
I have all my Insteon documentation for my devices and this was what was on the sticker(s) for the EZIO2x4. I know if you used the utility it gave you a overall version. Some of this I'm sure is PLM firmware that’s in it....
1.1 - 0829, 2662PL 0715, 2607 Rev1.3 Firm 52
I'll check out the wiki, Thanks.
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Ktulu
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| Posted: October 08 2008 at 08:45 | IP Logged
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doctorjerry wrote:
Jeff,
Do you have a formula to read the inputs of the EZIO2X4. |
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No. I'd love to be able to read the state of an input and set a global variable accordingly.
I have the EZIO linked to a keypadlinc button so it turns on when the input is triggered by the garage door's magnetic switch.
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Jeff
"Assiduus usus uni rei deditus et ingenium et artem saepe vincit" - Cicero
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Ktulu
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| Posted: October 08 2008 at 11:05 | IP Logged
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Lenny wrote:
I'd be interested if you could read the inputs as well.
I tried 2 of the EZIO2x4's purchased from Smarthome and both had old firmware and issues.
Talking to simplehomenet, support admitted to bugs causing links to be lost in the EZIO if you make changes to the relay timers after you link.... Did they fix that?
How does your implementation work? Are you still in nontoggle mode? ON or OFF?
Does the keypad status reflect the input state of the input (Magnetic Switch)?
My goal was to have the keypad reflect state by monitoring input. This way when the normal opener number pad is used to open the OHD the keypadlincs are updated. Also would like to turn on/off lights via PH Trigger or hard links in EZIO.
It would also be nice to use the Insteon RF Remote to open the door. For 1 it’s secure and I have a hillside ranch. The Access Points above the hill side is great because the standard garage opener you have to be right in front of the door.
When I tried the EZIO2X4, it was completely unreliable. It kept loosing it marbles when power cycled and for $130 I expect better.
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I've experienced similar results. I bought 2 EZIO2X4s from Smarthome. One of them was acting much like you describe in your post. I took me a long time to figure out what was going on. Fortunately I needed one for only for the relays so the one with all the problems works fine for that task.
As far as the function of the one that controls the garage door goes...
The keypad button is in non-toggle off mode and it's linked to my PLC. When it's pressed PowerHome triggers a ph_ctlrcmd command that trips the relay and the EZIO turns the relay off after 2 seconds. When the door lifts off of the magnetic switch the EZIO's input is tripped and it turns on the keypad button's light via a link between the keypad and EZIO.
I don't have the RF remote as I do all my remote control with a Harmony IR remote and a USB-UIRT. I haven't set it up yet but there wont be any problem controlling the door with the remote. It's just another trigger with the same command as the one that trips on the keypad button. I assume the Remote Linc setup would be very much the same.
So far the EZIO2X4 has been 100% reliable. It's been down twice since I hooked it all up. Once do to a server problem and once do to a locked up PLC (which is a little disconcerting as that has never happened before).
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Jeff
"Assiduus usus uni rei deditus et ingenium et artem saepe vincit" - Cicero
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grif091
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| Posted: October 08 2008 at 13:42 | IP Logged
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doctorjerry I found a higher level interface to control the EZIO2X4 Outputs and to read the Input states.
ph_insteon("TEST EZIO2X4",72,1) turn on output 1
ph_insteon("TEST EZIO2X4",72,0) turn off outputs
ph_insteonwithret("TEST EZIO2X4",73,0) returns the value returned in cmd2
In a macro I did a SET Global, using the ph_insteonwithret formula. I used a Global variable only because you can display the Global variable content using Powerhome Explorer. The Global variable contained a 15 (0x0f) when all 4 inputs are on.
Edited by grif091 - October 08 2008 at 13:44
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Lee G
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Lenny
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| Posted: October 09 2008 at 18:07 | IP Logged
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Lee,
I checked out your Post in the simplehomenet wiki. Looks good, however I don't want to use an entire KPL for this task.
My goal is to have button 7 on multiple KPLs Show status and Change Door State... I don't think I can do this in "non toggle mode". Smarthome says you can't update only the LED. It's ON for nontoggle ON and OFF for Nontoggle OFF...
So my thoughts were Toggle Mode, Crosslinked all KPL button 7's linked to ouput on EZIO fire relay for 3seconds. This would be fine as long as you NEVER used the traditional opener button or if something interupts the door closing...otherwise the light state will be wrong.
I thought about using a PLC group and PH group cleanup (PH_InsteonGroupcu("PLCGROUP","KPL",20) to update the status if
ph_insteonwithret("TEST EZIO2X4",73,0) shows the input on or off.
I guess I need to get my hands on a EZIO again to test. Hopefully getting from simplehomenet directy it will have newer firmware and fix it's bugs.
Do you think it is realistic to display status on 1 key accross multiple keypads and have that same key operate the opener? I wanted a insteon hardware only solution but I don't see that happening.
Edited by Lenny - October 09 2008 at 18:08
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grif091
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| Posted: October 09 2008 at 19:39 | IP Logged
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I don't think it is possible with an Insteon hardware only solution. Several posts across the various forums have described the issues involved but I have not seen anyone document a solution. The state of the LED determines what the KPL button press means. If you look at it from a normal cross link situation, another KPL or Switchlinc turns on the load and the cross link turns on the button LED on KPL which is cross linked. What you would expect to happen, and does, is for that KPL button press to issue a Group OFF to turn off the load because of the cross link. You need to have the button send a Group ON regardless of the LED state.
With HA you would use a Group OFF trigger to run a macro that would issue a Group ON to the output relay to cause door movement. Presumably the door closure itself would change the state of the magnetic contact and turn off the various KPL button LEDs.
I don't like the idea of needing a running PC to have my garage doors (or anything else for that matter) dependent on that PC. Many folks have just the opposite opinion. If my bay doors were visible from the house I would have done it with two buttons per door. One to control the door opener and one to display open/close state. I added a second magnetic contact and use a third button per bay door to be sure I know if I am opening or closing, even if I have a single magnetic contact failure. If PowerHome is running I audibly annunciate garage door movement and final open/close state.
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Lee G
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JustAnotherJoe
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| Posted: October 10 2008 at 13:38 | IP Logged
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grif091 wrote:
| I don't think it is possible with an Insteon hardware only solution... The state of the LED determines what the KPL button press means. |
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That is true of KPLs up to version 1.4. If the button is in toggle mode, when pressed it sends the command opposite to the LED state (LED on sends OFF and turns LED off, LED off sends ON and turns LED on). In non-toggle mode, it is the opposite: LED on sends ON, and LED off sends OFF, and in both cases the state of the LED remains unchanged.
However, with newer KPLs (tested with version 1.65, don't know about 1.5 and 1.6), the non-toggle command is independent of the state of the LED. When configured for non-toggle off, the button always sends an OFF command when pressed, regardless of the state of the LED, and likewise for on. Therefore, the LED can be used as a status indicator while still having the button always turn a scene on (or off).
So (theoretically, I haven't tested this), with a newer KPL the button could be made non-toggle on to always send the ON command, and the button could also be a responder in a scene controlled by the garage door to indicate the open/closed state of the door.
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Just Another Joe
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grif091
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| Posted: October 10 2008 at 15:28 | IP Logged
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Thanks JustAnotherJoe, that is good information. I have a new KPL and can confirm with direct test that non-toggle mode, ON or OFF, is no longer dependent on the state of the LED. In non-toggle OFF mode, a Group OFF is sent whether the LED is On or Off. Same with non-toggle ON mode. A Group ON is sent whether the LED is On or Off.
That leaves the problem that the LED cannot be trusted to reflect the state of the door. In non-toggle ON mode, the LED is normally on all the time. The LED flashes as the Group ON is sent, returning to a solid ON. If you turn the LED off by another device, such as the Input of an EZIOxx indicating the door is closed, when you next press the button, the LED turns On in response to the button press. The door may have opened in response to the button press, but you cannot be sure because the action of pressing the button in non-toggle ON mode turns the LED on.
The bottom line is that a single button in non-toggle ON mode can be used to control the door opener, and should reflect the closed state of the door (assuming the LED being Off indicates door closed) but the LED being On cannot definitively reflect the door is open as the LED turns On as a result of the button press. If that button press did not result in door movement, the LED says the door is open when it is actually closed. Pressing the button again, thinking the door is being closed, actually opens the door. I guess it is a question of how accurate you need the LED to be regarding door open/closed status versus the number of buttons involved in the process.
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Lee G
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JustAnotherJoe
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| Posted: October 10 2008 at 22:57 | IP Logged
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Lee, yes, you're 100% correct. So it boils down to either using two buttons, or using an automation controller to keep the button LED in sync (i.e. if you push the button to open the door [LED goes on], but the door doesn't open, the controller will turn the LED back off).
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Just Another Joe
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Lenny
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| Posted: October 11 2008 at 20:26 | IP Logged
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Thanks Guys, This open discussion is great. I did as much testing as I can without an EZIO. My KPLs are all 1.6 and I was able to update a button led on a key configured in non-toggle mode.
When I first ordered all my Insteon devices, SmartHome support didn't seem to know what was going on in development. I ended up RMA'ing 4 KPLs for nothing. They thought they were defective and the problem was actually procedural. This was due to the firmware changes 1.4, 1.5, 1.6. These revs they changed the programming procedure for setting X10 addresses and button toggle/nontoggle configuration. Now I see they have a manual out there for 1.5+ devices. I wish they would sell the utility and plug to update our own firmware… But I guess being residential line voltage devices it would be a liability for them.
I ordered another EZIO directly from SimpleHomeNet this morning. Hopefully I'll have it in a few days and it will have the latest firmware. Since I have already tried this once before, my wires and mag switch are already in place so I should be able to plug it back in and program away. I'll post again once I receive it and get it working. I have more faith now after this discussion.
Edited by Lenny - October 11 2008 at 20:29
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Lenny
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| Posted: October 18 2008 at 10:58 | IP Logged
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Ok Guys got my new EZIO2x4 V27
Couldn’t set output timers with Simplehomenet Utility Suite… Everytime I did a read I’d get different timers. If I type in 2 and write and read it again it would be there…. I factory defaulted it by unplugging the EZIO and holding down the button for 10 seconds….
Went back in to the “Suite” and read the output timers and tried to write them and got the same results.
I tried again this time using the up down arrows instead of typing 2. Then it seemed to write and read ok… I read the configuration register and enabled “Set Timer in Second” and “Enable Output Timers” Wrote and Read those ok…
I started with 1 keypadlinc (v1.6), button 7 in nontoggle on mode. I created a plc group OHD_STATUS (#30) created the link(s) between the PLC and Keypadlinc. If I control the group ON/OFF the LED on the keypad goes ON/OFF. I did this with several keypads and all work well.
Now I go to create my first link between a KPL (button 7) and EZIO output1.
Manually I put the KPL button 7 into linking mode. Goto the EZIO press the button for 4 seconds, Press and release once to specify relay 1, and press and hold for 4 seconds to finish…. OK now I press button 7 and relay fires for 2 seconds as expected.
I then go back to the “Suite” and manage device links specify the EZIO ID and display existing links records… it shows nothing! But the KPL button work so obviously a link was created. I switched the Insteon ID and read another insteon device link list ok, so the software seems to work…. I confirmed with Powerhome and the KPL and EZIO show links. Finally I say whatever and run around the house and link to the other KPLs and 1 RemoteLinc that’s in my truck.
All button presses fire the relay as expected… the “Suite” still shows no links.
I created a link between the EZIO and the PLC by putting the EZIO into linking mode, pressed the button 1 time to specify Input 1 and held for 4 seconds and went to the plc and held it for 10 seconds, back to the EZIO and held it for 4 second to complete the linking session.
Input 1 is configured in the EZIO to Send the following
Transition CMD1 CMD2
Off to On 11 &n bsp; 00
On to Off 13 & nbsp; 00
With just a Toggle switch connected to input 1, I can watch Insteon RAW Log within powerhome and the EZIO sends out 11 and 13 as expected.
I created 2 triggers OHD_CLOSED and OHD_OPEN.
Trigger Type: Insteon Device Change
ID:EZIO2X4_GARAGE
Trigger ID: ANY
Trigger Value ON|OFF as appropriate for each trigger.
I created 2 macros, OHD_STATUS_CLOSED, and OHD_STATUS_OPEN
The macros have a 3 second delay then send Insteon Group ON|OFF commands (OHD_STATUS (#30)
Each Trigger action runs the appropriate macro.
Flipping the toggle switch simulating opening and closing the OHD and all the keypads update…. SUCCESS! I went to bed last night dreaming about my new button.
This morning I did some more testing… I happened to think that the EZIO wouldn’t send the OFF|ON ON|OFF if it’s firing the relay. My thoughts were you press the KPL button the relay fires and instantly the Magnetic switch changes state before the relay releases. (2seconds) Testing proved this. The EZIO can’t operate the relay and send out insteon commands at the same time.
My OHD opener starts opening and closing really slow then speeds up. So I figured, what the hell I’ll move it to the garage and see what happens. Worst case I use another input one for “door open” and one for “door closed”.
I unplug the EZIO and plug it back in… ALL THE LINKS ARE LOST! GRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!! None of the buttons fire the relay and the state change of the input isn’t being sent to the plc. Of course all the KPLs have their links in them. The EZIO lost it’s.
I used PH to delete the EZIO links in the KPLs and Remote Link and manually linked 1 device again. Unplugged power to EZIO and plugged it back in… Waited for it to boot and tested, ok it kept it. I linked everything back up again including the PLC. Which is weird because the plc doesn’t show a link but doesn’t received any traffic from the EZIO unless you link them. Power cycled the EZIO again and let it kept everything… uhhh whatever, I’m going to put it in the garage now and see what happens when hooked to the Mag switch and opener.
Sorry for the long post, but I wanted to share my experience and frustrations.
Lenny
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Lenny
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| Posted: October 18 2008 at 12:35 | IP Logged
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I Moved the EZIO to the Garage and hooked up Mag Switch and OHD opener contact it works FLAWLESS! It’s such a beautiful thing 
Using the remote or any KPL button it operates EZIO operates the door, sends the Insteon status change to the PLC, Powerhome fires the trigger and updates the status.
The status is always right even if you stop the door with the infrared safety beam or by using the normal Opener remotes or buttons.
I used the mentioned ph_insteon("EZIO2X4_GARAGE",72,1) formula in a macro “OHD_OPERATE” to fire relay 1 on the EZIO from PowerHome directly. It works perfectly and I’ll be able to use it on my Control Center once Dave gets the RCC updates finished up. I love it.
My PLC Group “OHD_STATUS” (30) show the true status of the OHD door… I’m trying to think how to display that in CC with an image but have the “click” action be my “OHD_OPERATE” macro…. How do I read the status of a PLC Group? I tried ph_getinsteonstat("OHD_STATUS") but the result is always 1… Is there equivalent function for PLC Groups?
Over All I’m pretty happy now, but I’m still irritated that the SimpleHomeNet Utility doesn’t show the links and I hope that it won’t loose them again with power fluctuations. I was really close to running it over with my mow and vac and sending back the pieces 
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grif091
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| Posted: October 18 2008 at 13:46 | IP Logged
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Lenny, I don't know why the links were lost when you unplugged the EZIO2X4. The PLM has nonvolatile memory which should not be affected by unplugging. I live in a rural environment where power drops are not unexpected and I do not lose links in any of my Insteon devices, including various SHN devices.
Not seeing working links in the EZIO2X4 using the SHN Utility is due to the PLM in the EZIO2X4 being the newer version with larger memory, supporting 2016 links. This puts the link database start address at 3FF8 rather than old 0FF8 where the majority of link databases start. SHN is aware of this and is working on changes to both EZSrve and the SHN Utility. I have a version of the Utility I modified myself to work with the larger memory size PLMs. It’s not automatic; you have to click a check box on the Manage Device Links screen. I’ve been using it for about 2 months. If you want to try the modified Utility, send me a PM with an email address where I can send the new .exe file. The instructions describe where to find the existing Utility .exe, rename to save existing .exe and copy to current SHN Utility install directory.
EDIT:
Forgot to mention this. In your post you described reading and writing the Configuration Register. To make those changes permanent you need to click on the yellow Save Changes button. Sounds like you did from the results but wanted to mention it anyway.
Edited by grif091 - October 18 2008 at 14:05
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Lee G
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doctorjerry
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| Posted: October 19 2008 at 23:03 | IP Logged
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Lee,
I appreciate the higher level commands you found. I was able to use them in macros to control the output as needed.
But reading and using the input states still eludes me. I have very little programming knowledge. When you use command ph_insteonwithret how do you read the result? The set global variable you mentioned seems to be part of the solution, but I need more help.
An example of a formula or macro that reads input1 and then uses the result to perform another insteon command would help, if you don't mind.
Thanks,
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Jerome
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Topic: Need Help with EZIO
