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Handman
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| Posted: March 04 2009 at 15:18 | IP Logged
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I recently swapped out my dead PLC for a new SH PLM. After following all the forum suggestions, everything is working fine (including "seeing" extended Insteon commands), except I no longer pick up X10 signals?! I have numerous wireless x10 motion sensors (MS13s mainly) and these signals are picked up by a powerful V572 transceiver (similar to the W800), which retransmits the signal via a PSC05. All these components appear to be working properly (red LED on PSC05 is on steady and blinks with an X10 signal). But . . . none of these incoming X10 commands are being "seen" (logged) by PH (this was never a problem with the PLC). Yes, PH Explorer>Devices>X10>Units is set to the new PLM. Yes, the event logger is set to record ALL (except UPB) events. Yes, the PLM is set as "active" in PH Explorer>Setup>Controllers.
What am I missing?? 
Edited by Handman - March 04 2009 at 15:19
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BeachBum
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| Posted: March 04 2009 at 15:34 | IP Logged
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This may seem redundant but how are you viewing the PLM log? Do you have it set to record to disk or are you looking at it with PH Explorer? Im not talking about the Event Log. If you are looking at the PLM log I take it there are no X10 records but Insteon is flowing. My 1st take is the signal level at the PLM is a little weaker than the PLC and you might have been a the marginal point but for some reason that doesnt make much sense.
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Pete - X10 Oldie
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Handman
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| Posted: March 04 2009 at 16:08 | IP Logged
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I can tell I am about to learn something here . . . I have no idea how to look at the PLM event log. With the PLC there was the SDM and the log it produced (glad to be rid of that temperamental beast). I am only referring to the event log in PH or the shorter log visible in the PH Status section. Those areas always showed incoming X10 in the past. For what it is worth, if I send an outgoing X10 signal, that IS logged. It's almost as if there was no X10 traffic on the line, and there should be plenty. I am not certain about what you mean by "record to disk" although I do have a macro set to trim the event log every day to display just the last two days worth.
Edited by Handman - March 04 2009 at 16:09
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BeachBum
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| Posted: March 04 2009 at 16:23 | IP Logged
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If you go to PH Explorer there is a window called Insteon Raw Data. A little misleading as it also shows X10 traffic. That data can also be logged to a file. Last check box on the right above. To log it to a file the path needs to be setup in the PLM controller settings under Echo log file. I have found if you are logging to file do not close the PH Explorer window as that will stop the logging.
X10 entries will look something like this:
2009-03-04 15:19:01.171 TX 02 63 46 00
2009-03-04 15:19:01.342 RX SENTX10=46 00 06
2009-03-04 15:19:02.216 TX 02 63 43 80
2009-03-04 15:19:02.231 RX SENTX10=43 80 06
Edited by BeachBum - March 04 2009 at 16:25
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Pete - X10 Oldie
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grif091
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| Posted: March 04 2009 at 16:26 | IP Logged
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Under Setup/Logs the X10 In: is checked? I think Pete was asking if the "Insteon Raw Log" under Insteon Explorer is showing any inbound X10 traffic versus what the Event Log may be logging.
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Lee G
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Handman
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| Posted: March 04 2009 at 16:31 | IP Logged
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OK, that is misleading because I thought that was just Insteon traffic. I set the box to echo log to file. In PH Explorer I selected C:/ as the location. Is this correct? What is the log file called? Do I name it, or is there a PH default?
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BeachBum
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| Posted: March 04 2009 at 16:34 | IP Logged
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Call anything you want. I have a Log folder in my PH directory and call the file log.doc. Dont forget to reinit
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Pete - X10 Oldie
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Handman
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| Posted: March 04 2009 at 16:39 | IP Logged
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Yes, ALL X10 communications are checked in the Setup/Logs section of PH Explorer. There doesn't seem to be any x10 stuff on the Insteon Log section of the Insteon Explorer either. I will let it go a bit and see. Have to run an errand for a few hours. I may need to contact the PSC05/V572 manufacturer and verify it hasn't dumped on me too.
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BeachBum
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| Posted: March 04 2009 at 16:52 | IP Logged
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The other thing you could try, if its feasible, is to plug the receiver directly into the back of the PLM to test.
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Pete - X10 Oldie
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grif091
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| Posted: March 04 2009 at 17:06 | IP Logged
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The Settings "Echo Log File" is a path and file name, not just path.
C:\temp\phlog.txt
is what I use. As Pete said, whatever you chose.
The following entries are what you should see when X10 signals are received by the PLM.
2009-03-04 16:38:49.767 RX RECEIVEX10RAW=DD 00
2009-03-04 16:38:50.564 RX RECEIVEX10RAW=D2 80
2009-03-04 16:38:51.814 RX RECEIVEX10RAW=DD 00
2009-03-04 16:38:52.579 RX RECEIVEX10RAW=D3 80
The PLM is slightly less sensitive to powerline signals by 10 milivolts compared to a PLC. If that makes a difference you have a very marginal X10 environment to begin with. Can you move one of the devices putting X10 signals on the powerline closer to the PLM?
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Lee G
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Handman
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| Posted: March 04 2009 at 23:36 | IP Logged
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Pete . . . Lee, ya got it. I plugged the PSC05 into the PLM and it started picking up the X10 signals. Still, I have a hard time believing my X10 environment was that marginal to start with (all this over 10 mV?!). But I can't argue with the results of moving the transceiver. Sigh. I will try the transceiver in a closer location, but not piggybacked and see how that goes.
I have a lot of low voltage halogens and I think the electronic ballasts in the units may be the culprit. In fact, one branch has six lights and after several hours at a dim setting, some of the lights stop working (bad ballasts?) AND one of my Insteon switches "locks up" (has to be air-gapped to reset). I have replaced the switch several times and it is something with the location that is causing this. The wattage is appropriate for the switches, including derating, so I suspect bad ballasts creating a lot of interference on the line. It will be a pain, but I will probably have to add one or two Leviton noise suppressors. I also have zero FilterLincs installed on the three PCs (another possibility). Double sigh.
I thought the PLM was the answer to my PLC woes. I slayed one dragon, only to unleash two more. My wallet can't stand it.
Anyway, thank you Lee and Pete for your continuous and faithful service to the Powerhome Forum. 
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grif091
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| Posted: March 04 2009 at 23:53 | IP Logged
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Does sound like you have some work to do for noise problems. Also remember that the Insteon phase coupling devices (SignaLincs or Access Points) do not couple X10 signals so that may be another area to look at.
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Lee G
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Handman
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| Posted: March 05 2009 at 00:14 | IP Logged
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I have a whopping 4 SignalLincs for a 2000 sqFt house (overkill I am sure), and a hard-wired Homepro X10 signal bridge installed near a sub-panel. I never intended to use any X10 (only Insteon) when I remodeled the house, but the wireless X10 motion sensors were the only option a few years ago. Now there are Insteon MSs, but they are $$. Oh well, if I nail down the X10 the Insteon issues may be resolved too.
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BeachBum
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| Posted: March 05 2009 at 08:31 | IP Logged
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Your noise problem is exactly the same problem I have. In fact it is so bad that my kitchen lights are driven by X10 Leviton rather than Insteon or pure X10 because of inability to respond to commands. If there was a way to filter my track lights, which cause the problem, case would be solved. I just dont think one can place a filter in line with a light and dim it. I also have many other track lights in the living room but have been able to control the random problems using Insteon commands. The Insteon trick is to jump over the noisy circuits with Access Points. In the case of my kitchen placing them in the middle of the circuit did not work thus X10 Leviton.
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Pete - X10 Oldie
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Handman
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| Posted: March 05 2009 at 10:49 | IP Logged
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What is it about the X10 Leviton that makes it work? Is it a more powerful receiver? I think my first try is going to be to add an in-line noise reducer like the Leviton 6287 because they are supposedly made for this application. They are supposed to be mounted in their own receptacle but I think a lot of people just jam them in with the switches if they have deep boxes. I may go to Home Depot and see what they have in the remodel sections IF the filter passes the trial run. The offending (I guess) circuits are on virtual Insteon 3-ways with three and two switches, so I could also yank one Insteon switch and put the noise reducer in that receptacle. Ughh, this is killin' me. 
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BeachBum
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| Posted: March 05 2009 at 11:08 | IP Logged
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I use the HCM10-1D Dimmer. They claim to have the greatest signal integrity and noise immunity possible. I have zero problems with them where as regular X10 and Insteon would not work correctly in the kitchen.
Id be interested to see if a dimmer would work with a noise blocker between the noise and the dimmer. If it did then I could go back to Insteon in the kitchen. The problem with X10 is there is no easy way to check the status of the dimmer.
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Pete - X10 Oldie
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Handman
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| Posted: March 05 2009 at 18:05 | IP Logged
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OK, this is gonna be a painful few weeks to test, but I'll post my results when I know. I am not sure how the noise reducers work with Insteon since they are designed to filter at 120 kHz and Insteon is at 131 kHz (I think), but Smarthome and many others recommend filters - even for Insteon. I'd like to stay away from X10 and stick to the Insteon, because other than all the usual grief, it is pretty reliable! 
Edited by Handman - March 05 2009 at 18:10
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Topic: No X10 signals after new PLM
