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Johnny
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| Posted: September 21 2011 at 21:14 | IP Logged
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Hello,
I'm checking and learning PH2 with a 2814U PLC. I have only X10 modules that work quite well with a stand alone CM15A. To check things, I did a macro using X10 as timing is supposed to be managed by PH2 :
x10 - ID - on
x10 - ID - Dim
x10 - ID - Dim
wait - 2
x10 - ID - off
You may say "why not indicating the % directly in the dim command " : it doesn't work.
Problem is that some commands do not get through even if they are shown in Insteon Ray Log. I then decided to monitor the line with my CM15A to see what commands were really sent by the PLC. It seems that 20-25% of the time, one command was missing, sometimes the off, most of the times one dim was missing.
Collisions could be the culpit but with the CM15 I know there were no collisions. I imagine that someone already saw something like that.
I'm learning, so the way I do this may not be the best one.
Is it better to use X10 or X10BTN for reliability with a PLC ?
I thought there were some linkage and acknowledgement between PH2 and the PLC to avoid overloading the PLC while it's busy sending commands. Is there an option to set somewhere ? That may also be the reliability problem why most people moved to PLM.
What reliability problems did you face with PLCs ? When I did some testing with PH1 and the PLC, the SDM interface was the biggest problem. So far with PH2, I almost not had any problem with the SDM.
Thanks in advance, J guy
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BeachBum
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| Posted: September 22 2011 at 08:16 | IP Logged
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My experience tells me you might be onto an external problem. Meaning external to PH. . Dave has already addressed the internals. I doubt there are any collisions unless you have another controller on-line. I have found trying to monitor x10 traffic with another controller is not always so accurate. PH will not overrun a controller so I doubt that would be a problem. I have seen problems when using a USB cable over 6 feet and/or problems with the PLC hesitating and sometimes missing a stroke. In my PLM environment my sequence is:
ID
ON
ID
Bright, Dim/Bright 100
ID
Bright, Dim/Bright 15
But I am using a PLM and have no collisions or missed commands. You might try switching your SDM to a lower number version like 235. Just hit the BAT file to do that. I had problems with that in the past with my PLC. As I said earlier PLM is the way to go down the road. Sounds like your X10 circuit is fine and PH is well tested so I would center around the PLC/SDM. You might try factory resetting the PLC and doing the reload from PH of the Core Apps etc. Then go to the PLC and run the command “verifyCoreApp”. If you like I can fire up my old PLC and try duplicating your test.
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Pete - X10 Oldie
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Johnny
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| Posted: September 22 2011 at 15:25 | IP Logged
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Pete,
I've no doubt PH is well tested. My question was : what's be best way to send X10 commands with PLC ? While browsing the forum, I found a question on how to build formulas and macros to minimize delays (he was having problems with long delays). Dave's answer was it depends of your hardware : transceiver, controller, etc giving examples of low order and high order macros without any clear indication (he had no idea of the hardware).
I will test myself but I'm sure a lot of you already did that and found the best way.
Anyway, I will check my USB cable, it's close if not over 6 feet, this may be a problem.
I agree with you that PLM is the way to go .... but I'm not sure sure it's worth the investment with only X10 modules when someone plans to stick to x10 when someone already has a perfect working CM15 and a PLC. I would not like buying a PLM and having the same type of problems I have with the PLC right now. So that's why I want to understand from where are coming the problems and what's the best solution to solve them.
Thanks J Guy
Edited by Johnny - September 22 2011 at 15:26
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BeachBum
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| Posted: September 22 2011 at 15:39 | IP Logged
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Quick answer on your timings. I use a delay not wait of 1000 between commands to the same module but not after the last or when there is only 1. I have found this to be the most reliable.
It’s not that the PLM adds anything to X10 but that it gets rid of SDM which is where most of your problems probably reside. Just to add food for thought, it has been reported the PLM has less signal strength although I have not experience any problems in that area myself.
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Pete - X10 Oldie
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Johnny
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| Posted: September 22 2011 at 21:08 | IP Logged
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Pete,
You gave me a very good hint ! I checked my USB cable and I think I found the culpit. To do so, I tried the old cable on another equipement where it's easier to see it working or not. It was just not working. So I probably had a bad intermittent cable !
So far, with a new USB cable, everything I've checked works ! Even the adim command that had never worked is now fully working. A bad cable could certainly explain all the problems I was having, if not most of them.
For the delay, I couldn't remember which one of delay and wait was the best one. Now I know.
If ever I get reliability problems with modules, I will use your timing but right now, I'm not sure I will have to use it.
Thank you so much to you and Dave for your wonderfull support ! J Guy
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Johnny
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| Posted: September 23 2011 at 15:26 | IP Logged
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Hello,
Guys, you're to good to stop asking questions !
When I dim, the PH Status and reality are not really close. As an example, when PH2 process a dim it considers 4% per dim in the device status which means 25 dims to go from 100% to 0. In reality, I need 13 dims to go from 100 to 0.
Is there a way to say PH2 that my x10 dims are 7-8% not 4 ? I tried modifying the % dim in Controller settings but I didn't change anything.
Yesterday night everything was nice with Adim and dims. This morning nothing worked with Adim and dims. As dims and brights are directly linked to delays, I looked at controller's settings to see the options there. Desperatly, I tried to uncheck "enable pending operations" in controller settings. Everything worked again. Was it the problem, no idea ! I will see ...
If title "Enable Pending Operations" is meaningfull, this option could have impacts on X10 dims and bright. Could someone explains what is it ?
Thanks J Guy
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BeachBum
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| Posted: September 23 2011 at 23:03 | IP Logged
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I believe I am correct in saying “Pending…” is basically an Insteon operation I don’t believe it has any doings with X10 queuing. I look at the percentage dim thing as a relative number as many have raised concerns over its meaning. I don’t have any applications where the actual number is important. And I have also found the number of dims not consistent between modules. My Leviton’s behave differently than my X10s. The best way to count the dims is at the SDM level. I find the eyeball is the best judge of the dim level. Once I have set it I basically don’t change it. Although I do have macros that raise it incrementally until a certain level is reached. That level is a count by me not PH.
Edited by BeachBum - September 23 2011 at 23:06
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Pete - X10 Oldie
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Topic: Best x10 command with PLC
