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grif091
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| Posted: April 25 2008 at 19:06 | IP Logged
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Has anyone found a limit on the number of triggers that can be assigned to a particular Insteon device. Started with a single trigger (Insteon Group In, Trigger ID any) which invoked a macro that does a TTS to tell me my garage door is moving. Worked fine. I have magnetic switches on both the fully closed and fully open position of both bay doors to give me more comfort operating a garage door remotely which I cannot see from the house. That gives me the opportunity to have four separate triggers, one when the door starts to open, one when the door is fully open, one when the door starts to close, and one when the door is fully closed. Each of the four triggers invokes a separate macro with a unique TTS string giving me an audible message specific to the door motion (door opening, door open, door closing, door closed). The problem is that with 4 triggers associated with the various Input states of the EZIO2X4, the EZIO2X4 no longer responds to the Output 1 ON command from a Keypadlinc button reliably to start the door open/close motion. As though the 4 triggers which look at the same EZIO2X4 device address for a match to one of the four Input ON/OFF messages interferes with the group cleanup ON to output 1. I know that sounds strange. However, the EZIO2X4 Inputs and Outputs have been device linked normally to a Keypadlinc to monitor and control door movement for several months with reliable operation. Also that configuration continues to work reliably when I shutdown ph. Only when ph is up with those 4 triggers for the same device do I have a reliability problem. Door control from the Keypadlinc works about 1 in 6 times when ph is up with the 4 triggers defined. When door motion is successfully started, all 4 triggers work and each macro gives me the proper TTS message. When door motion is not successfully started, there is a group cleanup ON to Output 1 but there is no ACK message. I would look at this as an Insteon network problem except for the fact that the configuration was and is reliable without the ph triggers.
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Lee G
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BeachBum
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| Posted: April 26 2008 at 12:44 | IP Logged
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Could it be related to what you do in PH as a result of firing 4 triggers not the number of triggers?? I have 11 triggers fired from Group In on 3 devices and don’t see a problem.
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Pete - X10 Oldie
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grif091
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| Posted: April 26 2008 at 22:38 | IP Logged
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Sorry, I did not do a good job of explaining the configuration. Keypadlinc button 8 is linked to an Output on an EZIO2X4. The Output relay bridges the open/close switch on the actual door opener. Pressing button 8 ON, causes door motion, either up or down. Two of the Inputs on the EZIO2X4 are connected to magnetic switches, one magnetic switch indicates the door is fully closed, the other magnetic switch indicates the door is fully open. The two EZIO2X4 Inputs are linked to Keypadlinc buttons 4 and 6, which show when the door is not fully closed and when it is fully open. I defined 4 ph triggers....
Input 1 group cleanup ON trigger - door is not fully closed
Input 2 group cleanup ON trigger - door is fully open
Input 2 group cleanup OFF trigger - door is no longer fully open
Input 1 group cleanup OFF trigger - door is fully closed
Macros driven from the triggers provide TTS messages
Input 1 group cleanup ON macro - "Door is opening"
Input 2 group cleanup ON macro - "Door is open"
Input 2 group cleanup OFF macro - "Door is closing"
Input 1 group cleanup OFF macro - "Door is closed"
Not the actual TTS words but the above gives the gist of what is spoken. I open/close the garage door from the house and two Keypadlinc button LEDs show me the position of the door. If the door does not move, either the LEDs fail to light, or the LEDs fail to turn off. Direct visual feedback from the open/close operation. The EZIO2X4 and Keypadlinc have been working fine for months.
After defining the triggers and macros, button 8 on the Keypadlinc has become unreliable. Sometimes the door does not open, button 4 & 6 LEDs do not turn on. Sometimes the door does not close, button 4 & 6 LEDS do not turn off. Of course the triggers do not fire because the magnetic switches have not changed state because the door did not move. Okay, I can hear everyone saying, what does that have to do with the triggers? Well, button 8 is only unreliable when ph is running and the triggers/macros are defined. I opened/closed the garage door several times today without ph running and all things worked as they have for several months. In fact I made it a point to close the door even when I would normally leave it open, just so I would have to open it again later. I started ph around 5:00 today and now button 8 fails about 1 in 4 tries. Last night button 8 worked only about 1 in 6 tries with ph running. Lots of questions, is it really the triggers, would button 8 fail if the triggers were deleted. Don't know the answer to that, yet. I have run ph for 18 hours at a time and never saw a button 8 problem until I defined the triggers. Maybe that was just a coincidence. I did disable the triggers and button 8 still failed. I did reinit ph after disabling the triggers. Will button 8 fail with ph down but sdm3 up. Don't know the answer to that, yet. Has become more difficult to analyze because the failure has become more intermittent.
This really looks like a Insteon network issue to me. Except that it has worked for months before ph came along, it always works when ph/sdm3 are not running and it fails only when ph/sdm3 are running.
I have stopped testing for now. Have a nasty storm over head so I will wait until tomorrow to do more elimination tests.
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Lee G
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dhoward
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| Posted: April 27 2008 at 17:10 | IP Logged
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Lee,
There should be virtually no limit to the number of triggers for any type of action. You can even have multiple triggers of the exact same type and just different "actions" without ill effect.
When a trigger is "disabled" it does not fire and is essentially removed from the database query that does the trigger check. Everything you've described so far, seems to be pointing to a problem with either the PLC/SDM or possibly even PowerHome...just not a problem with triggers since the problem persists even with the triggers disabled (btw, you don't have to reinit to enable/disable triggers...just save the changes and they'll take effect immediately).
What I would try is first test with the PLC not plugged into the wall. Get a baseline on your KPL. Next, plug the PLC in the wall but without being connected to the computer. Test this situation. Next, plugin to the computer and run the SDM3 by itself without PH. Test again. Last, launch PH and have it connect to the SDM, but leave the triggers disabled. Before you get to this last test, I would expect the problem to show itself. Depending upon where, we can go to the next troubleshooting test. If it should have appeared when sometime before actually connecting to PowerHome, you might try reiniting the PLC. First do a factory reset, then from the PH Insteon Explorer Setup tab, Download Core app, Clear PLC database, Load Min ID's. This would clear up any flaky code that may be in the PLC.
Let us know how it goes and good luck  .
Dave.
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grif091
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| Posted: April 27 2008 at 18:20 | IP Logged
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Thanks Dave, appreciate the suggestions on how to isolate the problem. Pete sent me one of his PLCs to see if that would help with my inability to get past the 18/19 hour memory test mark. I'll put that in the mix when it arrives. I'm pretty sure I jumped to the wrong conclusion that first night, particularly knowing that disabled triggers are not part of the equation. Thanks for the reinit tip. I'm leaning toward sdm3 or maybe the sdm3/plc combination. The PLC has been connected to the PC via USB for a very long time, except a week or so ago when it hung up twice during the memory tests. With the devices working without ph/sdm3 up I put the PLC alone as a low possibility. Being able to test with a different PLC next week will help answer that part of the question. Thought I would have additional testing done by now but threat of severe weather this afternoon and tonight rearranged my "to do" list.
Is it true that an Insteon Group In trigger is fired only on the ACK and not the group cleanup itself? Thought I read that somewhere but have not been able to confirm that. I'm thinking about putting a trigger on the Keypadlinc button 8. If a trigger is run only on an ACK I can determine if the group cleanup ON to the Output device makes the full round trip.
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Lee G
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grif091
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| Posted: May 01 2008 at 01:11 | IP Logged
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To close out this thread, I moved to a new PLC and have not been able to recreate the symptom. However, I don't think the PLC change was the answer. The garage door opener had gone through many open/close cycles as I learned how to define triggers, macros, and TTS. The motor is rated for intermittent duty only and I think it tripped the thermal overload. When it cooled down I was able to run more tests, only to have it over heat again. Sorry for wasting everyone's time.
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Lee G
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Topic: Any limit on number of triggers
