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k2zs
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Posted: October 24 2009 at 09:37 \| IP Logged

I am maintaining an insteon installation using power home 2. In the Insteon Explorer - Device window I see the PLM is displayed with "Disabled" and "Don't Display" as being checked, is this normal?

I was also checking links and replaceing some addresses and I find in the "Links" tab some of the tasks I have tried go through the motions; I see the traffic in pending operations then completed operations; but when it finishes the new links show "Flagged Create". Why doesn't it work? I click the save, refresh, rebuild links and nothing happens. I click the Reverify button and nothing happens. I have even tried removeing all the linked devices and rebuilding the link from scratch and nothing happens...

Help Please

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grif091
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Posted: October 24 2009 at 10:55 \| IP Logged

My PLM device entry is not marked Disabled or Don't Display.

Which device(s) show Flagged Create? Check the device(s) for Disabled and/or Clear Failed column as being red shaded. Either will stop Powerhome background activity to the device which includes link management.

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Lee G

BeachBum
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Posted: October 24 2009 at 12:00 \| IP Logged

I assume under Setup – Controllers – PLM is showing Active checked. In Insteon Explorer you did Add Min to the PLM. Under tab Devices uncheck all and check anything in red. Then do a Save/Refresh.

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k2zs
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Posted: October 24 2009 at 13:15 \| IP Logged

Thanks to all, I have the links all verified in the linking tab. There were many broken links and missing ID's. I have cleaned all of that up and everything looks good there.

I did the "Add Min" to the PLM but the raw log shows every transmission as being "Nak"'d. I was under the impression that PLM's didn't store any data, why did I have to do that?

The "Device Status" window does not reflect ts status of any device unless it was controled through PowerHome. If a switch is turned on manually device status still shows it as off. In PowerHome Explorer - Setup - Controllers - plm "settings" window that "Status Check" is not checked along with others like group cleanup. Is that why? What are the recommended settings in this window"

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BeachBum
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Posted: October 24 2009 at 13:24 \| IP Logged

Under Settings take the default Status Check is unchecked. The PLM will store all your link info that is linked to the PLM. Add Min maps the devices. The fact you’re seeing NAKs in my option is not good. Is the COM port valid?

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grif091
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Posted: October 24 2009 at 13:24 \| IP Logged

The PLM contains a linear format link database like most Insteon devices. I think you will have to use the Add Full option as the PLM handles unsolicited Insteon messages differently than the PLC did. That is why you do not see a status change when the switch itself is turned on or off.

Post a few examples of the NAK messages. The commands ahead and following the NAK.

EDIT: Pete got his post in first. We seem to always be in a race. If you can control a device through PH then the com port is working. For PH to be aware of a manual switch press, a controller link must exist in the device itself and a responder link for that group must exist in the PLM. Try the Add Full option for loading the PLM link database. The PLC would pass unsolicited messages to PH with a minimum of link information. The PLM has a different design point and generally will not pass unsolicited Insteon messages to PH unless there is a responder link for that device and group in the PLM link database. PH normal establishes those links automatically but the full link information (Add Full) must exist in the PLM. If you do not see Insteon messages logged when you manually turn the switch on/off, check that the device has a controller link to the PLM and the PLM has a responder link for the particular device. The Insteon messages must appear in the raw log trace before PH sees them and can change the device status display information.

Edited by grif091 - October 24 2009 at 13:39

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Lee G

k2zs
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Posted: October 24 2009 at 14:18 \| IP Logged

Thanks all for the help. I have activated a status scan for the moment. There are around 200 devices so it's in for the long haul right now. I am accessing the machine remotely so I will just let it run for now. I want to see updated reports for overall communications and if any of my links show up broken.

Is there a way to retrieve a printed list of devices?

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Scott, K2ZS
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k2zs
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Posted: October 24 2009 at 16:18 \| IP Logged

k2zs wrote:

Does status scan just run forever or will it end when it's through? I swear I am seeing things that have already been scanned...

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grif091
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Posted: October 24 2009 at 16:28 \| IP Logged

Status Scan, the process of checking current device status, runs as long as the "Status Scan" option is set, querying each device at the Poll Interval specified.

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Lee G

k2zs
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Posted: October 24 2009 at 16:32 \| IP Logged

grif091 wrote:

Status Scan, the process of checking current device status, runs as long as the "Status Scan" option is set, querying each device at the Poll Interval specified.

Yes, I see that now. I had just stopped it and viewed the report. Hi percentages of NAK's on many devices. Lowest ACK percentage was about 85%

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grif091
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Posted: October 24 2009 at 16:42 \| IP Logged

There is a pretty standard process to follow to track the problems. First, if the PLM is plugged into a circuit that is the same or near the PC/UPS, use an extension cord to move the plug point of the PLM. PC/UPS power supplies, along with some TV power supplies and battery chargers are common sources of either noise or insteon signal attenuation. If reliability improves by moving the PLM plug point away from the PC/UPS, install a Smarthome FilterLinc between the PC/UPS and the powerline. Be sure the PLM is not supplied by a surge suppressing power strip or any of the UPS outlets.

TVs, battery chargers can be unplugged (not just turned off) to see if they are the source of interference.

Some CFLs generate enough noise to interfere with Insteon signals.

EDIT: not likely an Access Point problem but make sure they are on opposite 120v legs. You can also try moving them around to different locations being sure they remain on opposite 120v legs.

Edited by grif091 - October 24 2009 at 16:48

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Lee G

k2zs
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Posted: October 24 2009 at 17:11 \| IP Logged

grif091 wrote:

Not sure what you mean "Opposit Legs". There are 5 sub services in this home and every panel has a dedicated circuit with an access point plugged in. Speaking with Smart Home tech support today I was informed that the older access points had been re-released and that could me an issue. Are you saying that every sub panel would require 2 dedicated circuits (1 from each side of the bus?).

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grif091
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Posted: October 24 2009 at 17:55 \| IP Logged

Most houses are supplied with a single 240v service, made up of two 120v legs. From each 120v leg to neutral you have 120v. From one 120v leg to the other 120v leg you have 240v. Some folks describe these incorrectly as separate phases which they are not. You need an Access Point on each of these 120V legs to couple the Insteon signal from one 120v leg to the other. Otherwise the Insteon has to travel back to the power company transformer on one 120v leg and return on the other 120v leg. This is generally not a reliable means of getting the Insteon signal to the other 120v leg. Unless you have separate 240V feeds into the subpanels, technically you do not need more Access Points. I have a main panel on one end of the house and a subpanel on the other end of the house feed from the main panel, using only 2 Access Points. The fact that you have 5 subpanels tells me you have many circuits and lots of wire. You may need more Access Points, not to function as couplers but to distribute the Insteon signals into the more distant circuits. Of course if you actually have multiple 240V drops this requires an Access Point on each of the 120v legs.

Analyze the devices that have the most NAKs. They are probably isolated to specific 120v circuits. Installing additional Access Points on these circuits could improve reliability. The circuits that contain the devices with the most NAKs could have noisy devices or devices which are attenuating the Insteon signal. By process of elimination, turning off circuit breakers, unplugging devices, you can narrow down the problems.

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Lee G

k2zs
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Posted: October 24 2009 at 19:18 \| IP Logged

Thanks Grif you have certainly helped immensely

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BeachBum
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Posted: October 24 2009 at 20:02 \| IP Logged

You can move one of you known devices that have a problem to piggy back (plug in the PLM outlet) off of the PLM and see if it works clean. If so then you know you have a transmission problem. Helps isolate the problem. Again NAKs are not good and usually indicate a transmission failure. I run a large amount of dimmable CFLs and have not found them to be a problem but others have had problems. I’m interested in what you mean by “There are 5 sub services in this home.” Does that mean you have a 3 phase entry? If so that should be interesting. If you are talking about 2 phases then the split usually occurs after the meter and goes to 2 or more boxes. Still you would normally need 2 access points.

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Pete - X10 Oldie

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