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CV27
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| Posted: February 17 2008 at 12:32 | IP Logged
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Dave,
The Insteon IRLinc is (maybe) coming soon from SmartHome. As I understand it from the skimpy Quick start guide, the end result appears to be that the IRLinc creates Insteon groups (through linking to one or more Insteon device) and associates an IR code to that group.
The Quick start guide mentions the capability of Advanced linking without explaining how, but I imagine it won't be much different from the usual procedure. I'm not looking forward to setting/tapping all over the place to define my remote on levels and ramp rates. That's the main reason I got PowerHome.
So comes the question: are you planning to support the Insteon IRLinc, at least on the Insteon side ? It would be great if the specs allowed you to play with the IR side, but I'm not holding my breath on that one.
If the Insteon IRLinc does require special support (unless it can be treated as a SwitchLinc), will powerHome support be there when the Insteon IRLinc hits the streets ?
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dhoward
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| Posted: February 19 2008 at 10:06 | IP Logged
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I'll definately add support for the IRLinc, it just won't be available when it hits the street since I was not supplied a beta unit to work with.
If it uses a standard memory map like a KPL or switchlinc, then we should be good to go without any mods necessary. However, if it has a memory map more like a PLM or PLC, then we'll probably need PH to have specific support.
When it becomes generally available, I'll get one and see what's required.
Dave.
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deckhardt
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| Posted: February 29 2008 at 01:15 | IP Logged
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Mine arrives on Monday, March 3rd.
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CV27
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| Posted: March 03 2008 at 13:21 | IP Logged
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dhoward wrote:
When it becomes generally available, I'll get one and see what's required.
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Don't mean to up the pressure  The IRLinc is out and I'm tempted to get one, but only if PowerHome supports it.
When would the IRLinc fit into your (I'm sure) busy schedule for support ?
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JaredM
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| Posted: March 03 2008 at 22:41 | IP Logged
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I'm sure there are lots of cool enhancements Dave could do to PH to play even better with the IRLinc, but FWIW, I got mine in this weekend and had no problems getting the two to work together. I created a new device type in PH that's basically a ControlLinc but with 255 groups (I don't know the exact # of groups IRLinc supports so I guessed.) When I press a button on my remote (Harmony 890) IRLinc sends out a group command. That's enough to do about whatever cool stuff you want in PH.
Now, getting the IRLinc itself to work with my remote was another story. Note to anyone else who runs into problems: after trying many different remote emulations, none of which worked, I finally landed on an NEC42XM2, and the IRLinc recognizes most (but not all) of the buttons for Harmoney 890's definition of this.
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CV27
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| Posted: March 15 2008 at 00:55 | IP Logged
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Hey Dave,
I got my IRlinc last week. Like JaredM, I set it up as a ControLinc. I'm still experimenting with it.
If you decide to support the IRlinc, I'm curious what you will be able to do with the association "IR code to Insteon group". As for the rest, it seems to behave as any Insteon device, except for weird values for On level, Ramp and button numbers.
Have you decided what you want to do about the IRlinc ?
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dhoward
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| Posted: March 20 2008 at 23:29 | IP Logged
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IRlinc is now on order. Hopefully there will be some documentation or perhaps I'll figure out via experimentation what the wierd values mean.
Once I get it, I'll post what I think I can add for native support and then everyone can chime in on what I didnt think of .
Dave.
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CV27
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| Posted: March 21 2008 at 00:14 | IP Logged
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dhoward wrote:
| Hopefully there will be some documentation |
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SH confirmed when I bought my IRlinc that they had no ETA on a full user guide. For now, it just comes with the skimpy quick start. And don't raise your hopes: there's nothing in there for the enthousiast programmer in you. 
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reckless
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| Posted: March 22 2008 at 12:52 | IP Logged
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I installed mine last week.
Thanks to the advice JaredM I got my controller to work with it, but I haven't got the powerhome software working.
Still it's cool and I'm sure I'll figure it out.
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funbobbybaby69
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| Posted: April 01 2008 at 15:50 | IP Logged
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Could someone tell me where the 2411R insteon IRLink is listed in PH? Do i put it as a controller or as a device? I have the address but cannot get PH to record any commands (its not even showing in the PH Stat window) The lights turn on and off via IRLink but the computer is not registering the command. Any ideas?
Thanks
PH Ver 1.03.4.12
Edited by funbobbybaby69 - April 01 2008 at 15:51
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funbobbybaby69
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| Posted: April 01 2008 at 15:58 | IP Logged
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Ok, i deleted all the info i had on the IRLink, re added it and it still puts it as a 2414 NOT 2411. i hope thats ok. When i click autolearn it says "saving" and then says all the codes for this device have been programmed. do you wish to save these changes?" but i have not told it what IR code i want to associate the software with? Sorry for the newbie questions... but dats what i am... 
THe manual says hit record and follow the screen's directions... i hit record and it does nothing....
Edited by funbobbybaby69 - April 01 2008 at 16:12
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dhoward
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| Posted: April 02 2008 at 13:58 | IP Logged
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My IRLink is finally on the way  (along with my Insteon thermostat adaptor) so support will be coming real soon.
After I get my unit and delve into what it can and cant do, I'll add native support for the next version. In the meantime, I'll see if I cant put together some macros that makes using the IRLink with PH easier.
Give me a few days and we should have something soon.
Thanks,
Dave.
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dhoward
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| Posted: April 11 2008 at 14:27 | IP Logged
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All,
Received my IRLink and did some initial playing with it last night. Unfortunately, Im not sure what the best way to support this device is. Based upon the nature of the device, it's initial setup will require some level of a "hands on" approach rather than all setup being able to be accomplished via software.
Initial impressions follow:
Had trouble finding a set of IR codes that it would recognize. After several attempts, just looked up the code for an NEC TV and it recognized it.
For setup, you'll probably want to locate it in an outlet where you'll be able to easily see the green LED on the bottom (there is also a blue one on the side).
A normal setup procedure is to place the IRLink into link mode by pressing and holding the set button on the side. The blue LED on the side will blink a little and go out. You next learn the IR code by pointing the IR remote at the little receiver. When successful, the blue LED will blink very brightly. Now you link the device you wish this IR code to control. Typically this is done by pressing and holding the set button on a switchlinc or similar. The IR button at this point will now toggle back and forth between sending an ON or OFF command with press and hold sending Start Manual Change and Stop Manual Change. Incidently, it seems like sometimes it was difficult for the IRLinc to differentiate between a fast IR press to send either an on or off and sending the start/stop manual change. You can also set the IRLinc to always send an ON or OFF command (rather than toggling back and forth between the two) by adding an extra set button press (or two) on the IRLinc after learning the IR code.
Now, how can we simplify this process with PowerHome...Im not too sure. The IR code learning part MUST be done at the unit by sending an IR code at the IR receiver. We cant get around that part. Using the "Manual Linking" tab in Insteon Explorer, I seemed to have some success in putting the IRLinc into link mode (equivalent of the first set button press and hold). The next step is the IR learn. At this point, if you want an only ON or only OFF button, you MUST physically press the set button once or twice because this information is not contained within the link database and must instead be in some other memory location currently undisclosed. I was able to link the PLC as the controlled device also using the "Manual Linking" tab of Insteon Explorer.
After doing the above on several different IR codes and having PowerHome scan the link database of the IRLinc, what apparently is happening is that the IRLinc is storing the IR code and associating the first learned code with group 1, the second learned code with group 2, etc. The always on or always off function is NOT in the link database data. The best way I see to use PowerHome to simplify the IRLinc programming process is to either manually link (and learn IR codes) the IRLinc to PLC or use the Manual Linking tab to simulate pushing the button on the PLC or the IRLinc for the start and end of the linking process. I would determine how many IR codes I want to learn and the particular codes you wish to send, make a list of the order I plan to learn them because will give you the group number, and then just quickly link the IRLinc to the PLC for each code, being sure to manually press the set button once or twice for any always on or always off buttons. With this done, you can then fire triggers in PowerHome and setup whatever external control you like.
If you don't want to do everything via a PowerHome trigger, I would still follow the above process and after learning and linking to the PLC, have PowerHome scan the IRLink database. Once the IRLink database is scanned and within PowerHome, you could then create Controller links in the IRLinc to other Insteon devices that you wish to control directly via the IRLinc without PowerHome interaction. Once you've got an initial link in the IRLink (with the IR code learned), it then just becomes a normal Insteon device in which you can create links. You can create the links between the IRLinc and other Insteon devices and set/manage load levels and ramprates. The fact that you've got an extra link controlling the PLC is not an issue unless you start to approach the 417 link limit of the IRLinc device in which case you can delete the PLC links on groups that you've linked other Insteon devices to.
Let me know if anyone else has any other ideas,
Dave.
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CV27
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| Posted: April 12 2008 at 00:25 | IP Logged
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Dave,
You've hit pretty much the same road I have. Here's where I'm at: When I issue an IR at the IRlinc, the way I can control via software is to check for status changes on the Insteon devices associated (within the IRlinc) with that IR code. Not wanting to waste actual physical devices, I would like to be able to define virtual devices to which PH would be listening to. It doesn't matter whether the virtual device exists or not, as long as PH knows about it such that it will recognize a command sent to it. How can I do that ?
I agree with you that there is nothing to be done for handling the IR codes in PH. I train the IRlinc for a particular IR code, then manually link to a (any) physical device, such as a spare Lamplinc. Once the group is set up in the IRlinc, I can then use PH to read in the IRlinc's table and then first associate other devices to that group and finally, if needed, delete the initial link.
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dhoward
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| Posted: April 14 2008 at 14:44 | IP Logged
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CV27,
Good to hear that I wasnt missing something. I suppose linking to actual Insteon devices for direct control via an IR remote is something some people would use, but I would think that being able to trigger off of an incoming IR would make the most sense.
If you're willing to test, the alpha has support for basic virtual Insteon devices. To create a virtual Insteon device, just go to the Devices tab and make sure that the first character of the Insteon address is a "V" such as "V0.00.01". Once the virtual device is created, you can create links to and from the new virtual device. When PowerHome creates the links, it doesnt actually try to communicate with the device but instead just creates the appropriate link records in the PH database. No actual links will be created in any Insteon devices...it's just all stored internally within PowerHome. That's why it wouldnt make much sense to setup a virtual device as a controller of another device, unless it's a controller of another virtual device...I didnt think to test that .
Anyways, the virtual devices should show up on the Device Status screen (unless flagged as Control Only) and be able to be controlled and have triggers fired. So, in the case of the IRLinc, I would think that you *only* need to have the IRLinc linked to the PLC/PLM for each IR code (IRLinc group) as an actual Insteon link and then just link virtual Insteon devices alongside the PLC/PLM to fire triggers off of. You have to have at least 1 actual Insteon device in the IRLink otherwise it wont even send out the group broadcast command. The only downside to this is that the virtual will *only* respond to the group broadcast command as there won't be a group cleanup command to the virtual since the IRLinc doesnt know that the virtual actually exists.
HTH,
Dave.
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drhjean
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| Posted: April 14 2008 at 19:13 | IP Logged
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dhoward wrote:
All,
have PowerHome scan the IRLink database.
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Okay, this is probably a really dumb, basic question, but I've searched both the quick-start guide and manual for the word "scan" and cannot find an explanation as to how to "scan the IRLink database."
I've gotten IR codes into my IRLinc just fine, and I've gotten the IRLinc into PowerHome as a device (I auto-discovered it, and it showed up as a 2414). But no groups show up in PH. I believe this elusive step will enable me to the groups that I've set up with IR codes in the IRLinc.
I'm one who just wants to create groups within the IRLinc (not using powerhome to trigger) that can then be controlled with my remote control.
Thanks much for the help! 
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dhoward
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| Posted: April 14 2008 at 20:45 | IP Logged
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Drhjean,
No such thing as a dumb question .
First thing we want to do is get a proper Insteon device type for the IRLinc. The default device type assigned for any device not recognized will usually be the 2414 (PowerLinc) which will never be scanned.
In the "Types" tab, go ahead and insert a new line and set it up as follows:
2411R - IRLinc
Control Only
Groups 254
Everything else is fine at the default. This is not the *correct* way to set it up, but the best we can do at the moment. There will be changes to the PowerHome Types table and screen show to reflect better support for the newer device types.
After inserting the new Insteon Type, press the "Save/Refresh" button and then exit the Insteon Explorer and then reopen it (my bad...the new type won't show up in the "Devices" tab until we reopen...I'll get this fixed). Go to the "Devices" tab and set the IRLinc to the new IRLinc type we created. In this screen, you'll also see a column titled "Scan DB". If you place a check in this column, it will force PowerHome to scan the device. However, once you change the device type from 2414, it should do it automatically. Press the "Save/Refresh" button and PowerHome should start scanning the IRLinc for its current links.
Once completely scanned, go to the links screen and you should be able to see all of the links currently in the IRLinc. As long as you've already learned the appropriate IR codes and assigned at least a *placeholder* link associated with that code, you should then be able to use PowerHome to add additional devices to existing groups as well as modify ramp rates and levels.
Hope this helps and let me know how it goes,
Dave.
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drhjean
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| Posted: April 14 2008 at 23:53 | IP Logged
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Thank you, thank you, thank you!!! That was a perfect explanation. I've got it working just like I want it. I used IR signals from my Yamaha receiver for a few groups. I set the groups up in PH quite easily after following the steps in your previous post, and they work perfectly. Your explanation was the key.
LOVE PH!!
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CV27
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| Posted: April 20 2008 at 22:10 | IP Logged
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dhoward wrote:
... You have to have at least 1 actual Insteon device in the IRLink otherwise it wont even send out the group broadcast command...
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True, but the device can be bogus. What I do is first link the IRlinc with a real device (spare lamplinc) when setting up the IR code, then using PowerHome I create a bogus device with a far out address (0F.FF.01... yes, the responder create won't succeed but who cares), link it to the IRlinc and only then delete the IRlinc link to the real device (lamplinc).
What I've come to realize is that if you want to control the IRlinc from software, you need to watch traffic coming from the IRlinc, focus on the Group broadcasts and determine which group the IRlinc is broadcasting to and then affect the status of a PowerHome virtual device (thanks to you); from there you can trigger events galore.
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Topic: Insteon IRLinc: PowerHome support ?
