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GadgetGuy
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| Posted: September 05 2018 at 11:42 | IP Logged
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Dave -
For a number of years I have been fighting an issue regarding the successful execution of a macro triggered from a 2411R-IR Linc/Receiver (which I don't think really has anything to do with the failed trigger).
My Home Theater Universal Remote signals to the 2411R at the end of a viewing session to turn the room lights back on.
The LiteCtrl macro is successfully triggered but the Insteon command to turn the lights on almost always fails.
If I use the "Check Formula" function to execute the Insteon command in the macro it works every time. If I (right-click on the Macro Detail window and select "Play" the Lite comes on every time BUT when I Trigger the macro from my IR Remote, the macro plays every time, but the Insteon command fails. The light does NOT turn on and the Event Log shows the Macro running and posts User Message comments placed on either side of the Insteon command, but there is no Insteon Out event shown in the Log. I have played with all kinds of delays stuck in between things, turning Triggers on/off, etc to no avail. Sometimes what I try seems to make a difference but these occurrences are short-lived and the light quits working again.
The actual light control Macro had some complexities which I have grossly simplified in an effort to discover why this behavior exists. The following is the test macro code I have been using....
and here is a snapshot of the Event Log...
As can be seen, the IR LINK Group 12 Insteon In event is recorded and followed by the LR LITE RMT CTRL macro being executed. Between the subsequent "Turning On LR Lite" and the "Turned On LR Lite and now..." messages there is an "Insteon In Group Cleanup From IR Link command but NO Insteon Out command ever indicating that the LR LITE was ever told to turn on.
For several years I have thought this was probably an issue because the computer running PH was always at 85-100% CPU utilization and maybe PH just couldn't keep up, but I now have a computer that is 10X more powerful and seldom hits even 15% utilization, so there is something else going on.
Any thoughts or test ideas to debug this?
 ken b (aka gadgetGuy)
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dhoward
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| Posted: September 05 2018 at 16:57 | IP Logged
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Ken,
I would need to see the full details of the LR LITE AUTO DAY ON trigger (I assume this is what is calling the macro).
Dave.
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GadgetGuy
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| Posted: September 05 2018 at 20:19 | IP Logged
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Dave -
Here is the very simple Trigger (highlighted in green) used to catch the Lite On command (Group 12 from the Home Theater Remote...
NOTE: the virtually identical Triggers (yellow highlight)from Groups 9 and 10 always work.
Also an observation. The failure cases seem to manifest as either no Group 12 Insteon Out recorded in the Event Log or only a Group Cleanup for 12.
On the rare occasions when a Direct Group 12 is "seen" the light on usually works.
Before I started this debugging effort the 2411 IR to Insteon device had links from it to several KPL keypads associated with the LR light. (Those links are currently removed for simplicity). When they were there all of the keypad button lamps were correctly set virtually every time and those commands were seen by the PH Event log, BUT at the same time the Direct light on command was not getting recorded in the Event log. I have been totally stumped by what is going on with this all, and trying hard to come up with tests/experiments to try to discover what might work or not.
Any insights (no matter how obscure) you can come up with can't be anything but helpful and I look forward to your thoughts.
 ken b
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GadgetGuy
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| Posted: September 05 2018 at 20:28 | IP Logged
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PS - Just to focus on the key puzzling aspects of this issue.
PH often never "sees" the Group 12 command yet always sees the 9,10, and a 11 sent from the same 2411R IR Linc device.
Often even though PH sees the Group 12 cmmd and properly executes the "LR Lite ON" macro, the Light does not light and the Event Log shows no corresponding Insteon Out.
Yet if one Plays the macro or does a Formula Check on the Insteon LR Lit On instruction the light always turns on and the Event Log shows the Insteon Out cmmd.
In the event it is helpful, the light in question is actually a 2475F FanLinc device.
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GadgetGuy
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| Posted: September 06 2018 at 20:02 | IP Logged
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Dave -
Following the intuition I have had for several years re this issue I tried something today, and it seemed to fix (so far) the problem.
In the LR LITE RMT CTRL Macro I inserted a 3 second Wait command (green highlight) at line# 40 just before the User Comment (and thus before any real actions were taken by the macro).
I did this in the belief that the Trigger handling process, or the Group Cleanup traffic, somehow impedes Insteon event handling for a brief period.
Sure enough, when that WAIT is inserted the Insteon Out command now shows up every time in the Event Log and the light has lit every time I had tried it tonight. A few more days of use will really tell the story, but its looking better than it ever has.
Here is a Event Log capture and you can see it now looks like one would expect compared to the earlier Log image earlier in the thread.
You may want to look into what might be going on in the above noted Trigger and Insteon PH handlers
ken b
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GadgetGuy
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| Posted: September 08 2018 at 09:37 | IP Logged
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Follow up.
After quite a bit of testing, I'm excited to advise that the preceding advised approach of delaying attempts to control the light for a few seconds in order to let Trigger and Group Cleanups have a chance to do "their thing" seems to have resulted in a 100% success rate, which is about 100-fold better than before.
Here is the current macro (I have the time of day test turned off for simplicity still)....
And here is the Event Log with a clean response sequence where actions are shown in the order they appear in the macro instead of being scattered all over the place...
I would appear that something in PH processing is impacting the ability to send out an "Immediate" Insteon command. I suspect a "Posted" command might work but I never tried that.
Hope this info is helpful Dave, especially as you are working on a new version release.
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GadgetGuy
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| Posted: October 02 2018 at 07:34 | IP Logged
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After even more intensive testing and experimentation, I believe I have discovered the following...
The culprit that seems to be messing things up is this Group Cleanup command which can come in a burst of 1-3 transmissions...
This activity arrives 1-2 seconds after the initial 'Group Broadcast from IR Link Group: 12, On' command is initially sent from the IR LINK.
If I try to have my macro send an Insteon Command out from the PLM to turn on the living room light at the same time the IR Link Group Cleanup arrives the Macro's 'Insteon Out' effort always fails.
Note: This situation seems to be unique to using the 2411R IR Link in a mode where it controls nothing directly but only sends an Insteon command to the PLM to trigger an action.
I have extensive experience in two homes now and have had close to 100% perfect PowerHome control except for interactions with the 2411R where I often get only a 10-20% activity success rate. If I link the 2411R directly to a light along with the PLM the light will always light but PH will fail as described above, so it is clear that the IR LINK is not failing to send out Insteon Commands.
As outlined in the thread above, however, if I put an initial 3-second delay in a macro, so nothing is attempted after being triggered, then I have virtually a 100% macro success rate. A 0-1 sec delay almost always fails, and a 2 sec will occasionally work.
It would thus seem that whatever PH is doing when the Group Cleanups from the IR LINK arrive, is momentarily disabling PH's ability to send Insteon Out commands.
Edited by GadgetGuy - October 02 2018 at 07:37
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GadgetGuy
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| Posted: October 03 2018 at 07:35 | IP Logged
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More confirmation of potential cause.
For the first time since adding an initial delay before actions to the macro, it failed last night.
The failure was exactly what I have been noticing for the last 4-5 years in experiencing lighting effort failures in my Home Theater automation efforts. I was always suspicious but could never prove anything. So many of the failures always seemed to come when I estimated the IR LINK was trying to turn lights on/off at about the same time my 2441TH Insteon thermostat was reporting its periodic status. When that happens there is a burst of "Direct from STAT" traffic reporting temp and humidity.
Now with the recently gained insight, this past experience seems to be starting to make sense.
A STAT collision happened last night just as I was trying to turn the room lights off to watch TV. That effort happened around 18:22-18:23 (see image below). The IR LINK would have sent out a "Group Broadcast From IR LINK Group: 11,On" yet it never appears in the Event Log and the Light never turned off, nor were the KPL button LEDs changed nor was the home sound system muted (indicating that PH never triggered the macro at all). Later at 18:26:33 a Group 11 Cleanup occured, so it is clear that the IR LINK did send out the command.
Also note the extreme delays in the STAT logging with a series of Humidty Pushes starting at 18:22:47 and repeating until 18:25:57 (almost 3 minutes).
Add these "Direct From" bursts to the "Group Cleanup" bursts and they both seem to be contributiing to the nature of the problem.
I post this all in the hopes it might help others who have been experiencing unexplainable command failures, and yet like my home have a very high degree of Insteaon reliability, better understand what might be going on.
I hope Dave it might also give you some insight into what might be happening.
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Topic: Consistent Macro Failures
