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judetf
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| Posted: March 13 2008 at 20:33 | IP Logged
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I've tried and retried, searched and re-searched; can't figure it out.
I can't get button 7 on a KPL to fire a trigger. Weird thing is, to troubleshoot, I tried it on another KPL and it works great. So either I misconfigured things and can't see how, or I have a problem with the KPL or with overall Insteon communication.
From the log, when it works from the one KPL, I see:
PLC:eventraw=02
PLC:receiveinsteonraw=02 0A E3 CF 00 00 07 CF 11 00
PLC:eventraw=01
PLC:receiveinsteonraw=01 0A E3 CF 08 A8 44 45 11 07
PLC:eventraw=03
ui:srir=00 00 00 0C AC CE 0F 11 96
uifinished:srir=00 00 00 0C AC CE 0F 11 96
si:08 A8 44 0C AC CE 0F 11 96
It goes on from there, but given what I see when it doesn't work, I don't think the rest is necessary.
When I hit the button on the non-functioning KPL, all I see in the log is:
PLC:eventraw=01
PLC:receiveinsteonraw=01 09 9F CE 08 A8 44 41 11 07
I can't find anywhere that lists what the various "eventraw" codes mean, and so I am stuck troubleshooting this now. Any help much appreciated. Thanks
jtf
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judetf
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| Posted: March 14 2008 at 05:23 | IP Logged
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I guess my "configuration" would help: for both KPLs (the one that works and the one that doesn't), I have button 7 linked to PLC group 7 as a controller, and I have them linked to group 7 of the PLC as a responder.
I've tried to "read" the log. Clearly, when it works, the first log entry is an eventraw=02, followed by something else (that I can't interpret), and when it doesn't work the first entry is eventraw=01. But I don't know how to address that...
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jbbtex
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| Posted: March 14 2008 at 11:24 | IP Logged
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If you've checked that all your links are good and there is not an "Insteon In" entry in the PowerHome log when you press the button, you may have a KPL problem.
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Brady
"Never tell people how to do things. Tell them what to do and they will surprise you with their ingenuity." - Gen. George S. Patton
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judetf
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| Posted: March 15 2008 at 09:59 | IP Logged
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It's a brand new KPL and I just realized it's version 1.65, where my other KPLs are v1.6.
Dave (or anyone), is it possible that something has changed in the KPL and that has changed what programming is required to make it work?
The new one is works just fine with the links I've created, controlling multiple other Insteon devices. It's just that I am not getting the trigger to recognize that a button has been pushed.
If it is new programming in the KPL then I won't be able to convince SH that it's broken...
Any ideas?
Thanks
jtf
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judetf
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| Posted: March 17 2008 at 15:41 | IP Logged
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I'm bumping this in the hopes that someone has helpful thoughts. Since the SDM does see _something_ when I press the button, isn't there a way that PH can see that and trigger on it?
Again, having tried in the past to return a KPL because v1.6 has some problems, and being told that they wouldn't accept a problem with PH when the issue had been resolved in the HomeSeer app, I want to make sure that I have a credible leg to stand on when I call them and report the problem. And since my only evidence at this point is that the PH trigger won't fire, I am not sure that will be sufficient.
Again, any help (either on other ways to test/double-check, or on how to communicate the problem to SmartHome in the hopes of getting a replacement, or even just commentary that other people with KPL 1.65s see different behavior than what I'm seeing) would be much appreciated.
Thanks
jtf
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jbbtex
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| Posted: March 18 2008 at 07:27 | IP Logged
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Why type trigger are you using, Insteon Group, Insteon Device Change, etc.?
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Brady
"Never tell people how to do things. Tell them what to do and they will surprise you with their ingenuity." - Gen. George S. Patton
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judetf
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| Posted: March 18 2008 at 09:16 | IP Logged
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I think I've managed to try them all, in an effort to make things work. The basic I've tried is Insteon Group In. I'm more than happy to try others to see what I can make work, if anyone has ideas on what exactly to try. I've never done triggers other than Group In, so any help would be appreciated.
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jbbtex
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| Posted: March 18 2008 at 12:00 | IP Logged
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Try this.
Trigger: Insteon Device Change
Trigger ID: the ID of your KPL
Trigger ID Number: (Any)
Trigger Value: (Any)
This should trigger whenever you press any button on the KPL.
Change Trigger ID Number to 7 and that should trigger any time you press KPL button 7 (G).
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Brady
"Never tell people how to do things. Tell them what to do and they will surprise you with their ingenuity." - Gen. George S. Patton
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BeachBum
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| Posted: March 18 2008 at 13:45 | IP Logged
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I had a similar problem with a ControLinc when the ControLinc was NOT in the “Controllers” window when observing the PLC as the “Insteon Device ID” and the “Responders” did not contain the right Group information. Although I did see where this was previously checked.
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judetf
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| Posted: March 18 2008 at 20:59 | IP Logged
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So, hey, that works! I used Insteon Device Change, and voila! Many, many thanks...
So can someone explain the difference between using Insteon Device Change to trigger on a KPL button press versus using Insteon Direct In, which seems to work for the other KPL button triggers I have created? Why would I use one over the other (well, beyond the obvious reason at this point)? How does one learn the "right" way to do things when there are multiple ways to do it?
Thanks, and thanks again!
jtf
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dhoward
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| Posted: March 20 2008 at 23:22 | IP Logged
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jtf,
After reviewing the messages above, it appears that the PLC does not have the non-working KPL address in it's database.
Insteon has multiple layers of databases and this complicates the understanding of how it works. If you look at the eventlog of the working KPL in your first post, you have the eventraw=02 which means the PLC has received a new, (first) unique message in a hop sequence. The first message you're seeing is the group broadcast command from the KPL to the (Insteon) network. The PLC would not "see" or register that this message was sent if the KPL's address was not within it's own internal database (the database in the PLC...not the database in PowerHome). This message is then followed by a direct group cleanup message targeted specifically to your PLC. This message would be seen regardless of whether the KPL address was in the PLC database or not because it's a "direct" message. Long story short, this is the way everything should work.
Your non-working KPL however is shown with an eventraw=01 which is a new unique (first) message addressed specifically to the PLC. This is the group cleanup message. No group broadcast message. The group broadcast message was most likely sent (unless something is really messed up with the KPL) since the direct group cleanup message was sent. If the KPL did not have a link to the KPL (or any other device on button 7), then there would be no group broadcast OR direct group cleanup message. The fact that you got a group cleanup message to the PLC is an indication that the KPL is properly linked.
Since the direct message came through (which it will regardless of PLC database) and the group broadcast did not (group broadcast ONLY come through if the PLC has the sender's address in its database), this points to the PLC missing the KPL address in it's database. Everything else will appear to work, direct control, even group broadcasts originating from the PLC will control the KPL (because the KPL link database is ok). You just won't receive group broadcasts from the KPL. This will also result in less reliable communications because the direct group cleanup is not a guaranteed message and may not be sent if other Insteon traffic is present.
So, how did this happen? Hard to say. Ive seen addresses just randomly drop out of the PLC or sometimes the entire database just goes kaput (not the case here since the other KPL works). Because it does occasionally happen, PowerHome provides a simple way to fix it. Just open the Insteon Explorer and navigate to the Setup tab. Select "Clear" to wipe out all addresses in the PLC database followed by "Add Min" to add all currently defined Insteon addresses in your "Devices" tab to the PLC database. Once this is complete, you should start seeing the proper information in the log and your Insteon Group In triggers should work.
HTH,
Dave.
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judetf
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| Posted: March 21 2008 at 05:50 | IP Logged
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Genius!
I cleared and added, and voila! Thanks for the explanation and solution.
But that begs the question: now that I have two working ways for a KPL to fire a trigger (Group In and Device Change), which one is better or more appropriate to use?
Thanks much again.
jtf
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Topic: Need help: KPL button won’t trigger
