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rums
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| Posted: May 28 2009 at 11:54 | IP Logged
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Hello!
I'm brand-spankin' new to Insteon / Power-Home (just in day 2 of my 30-day trial). I think I've (sort of) figured out links / responders / controllers and how they relate to the buttons on my 6-button KPL, but one thing I'm missing is how to trigger the load on my KPL along with other lights.
Example: On / Off buttons on 6 button KPL control the light attached to the KPL.
Desire: Button 'A' controls that same attached light, in addition to other Switchlinc dimmer-enabled lights in the house. I was able to get this working manually by creating a scene using the KPL itself, but I would like to do it through the PH interface through the PLM.
If anyone could please post up a screenshot of their device link page that accomplishes something like this, it would be most appreciated.
Thanks,
Rums.
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grif091
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| Posted: May 28 2009 at 14:27 | IP Logged
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The Group number of the KPL button is the key. In 8 button mode button A uses Group 1, button B uses Group 2, button C uses Group 3, etc. In 6 button, the top two buttons and the botton two buttons use Group 1. The first small button (top left of 4 button pattern) uses Group 3, the same group number if the KPL was in 8 button mode. The second small button (top right) uses Group 4, the same group number if the KPL was in 8 button mode, and so on.
When linking responders to a KPL button, the Blue Group number column reflects the KPL button Group number of the controller KPL button. The Green button number column is the Group number of the responder. Most single unit devices, like SwitchLincs, LampLincs, ApplianceLince, etc use a button number of 0. The KPL Group number is the button number of the KPL button that is the responder. For exmaple, you want button C of the controller KPL to control button D of a responder KPL. The Blue Group column would be Group 3 (for button C) and the Green Group column would be Group 4 (for button D).
Just drag/drop the respective responder device and fill in the appropriate button numbers.
EDIT: you have to cross-link devices to get them to respond in sync. In the above example where Button C controls Button D on another KPL, you will want to make KPL button D of the responder, also a controller. That is button D will be a controller of button C as a responder. That is necessary so that regardless of whether button C on the first KPL or button D on the second KPL is pressed, the status is reflected in the both devices.
EDIT2: in case these are your first links under PH, click on Save after defining the links you want to create or change. Also be sure the Enable Pending option in the upper left corner of Insteon Explorer is checked.
Edited by grif091 - May 28 2009 at 15:15
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Lee G
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rums
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| Posted: May 28 2009 at 21:42 | IP Logged
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Lee,
Thank you so very much for the reply. I appreciate the screenshot and (very) detailed explanation.
I've read what you typed about a dozen times, and tried what I thought was correct each time in my environment, but just can't seem to get it to go. All I'm after is to hit button 'A' on my 6-button KeypadLinc and turn on the hardwire connected light as well as one other.
If you see the screenshot below, the items in Responder group 4 work fine -- the appropriate buttons light up. However, it's the items in responder group 1 that don't work and I'm not sure why.
What it's supposed to do is allow me to hit button 'A' and the attached light and 'KITCHEN TRACKS' are to turn on.
Any idea where I'm off track here?
Thanks again,
Rums.
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grif091
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| Posted: May 28 2009 at 22:18 | IP Logged
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Some things for you to confirm...
1. The 6 button KPL is EATING AREA KEYPAD
2. When you press the large top button on that KPL the lights connected to the Red wire of the KPL do turn On
3. When you press that KPL button D (group 4) the KITCHEN TRACKS do turn On
4. When you press that KPL button D (group 4) the same KPL button E (group 5) turns On
I would be surprised if 4. is actually working as that would require the KPL to be a controller and a responder to the same button press.
I think the first responder link for Group 1 and Group 4 should not be there but let’s take this one step at a time. Let me know what the answers are to the first 4 questions.
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Lee G
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rums
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| Posted: May 28 2009 at 22:39 | IP Logged
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Hello Lee,
I also would like to mention that I did do a factory reset of the KPL
previous to setting up these links to remove the
scenes I had created manually. Onto your questions:
1. Correct. 6 button KPL is 'EATING AREA KEYPAD'
2. Correct. Hitting the 'On' and 'Off' buttons turn the load-connected
eating area lights on and off.
3. No. Current functionality of the KPL with the screenshot is:
Button On: Turns on eating area light.
Button A: Nothing
Button B: Turns on "KITCHEN UNDERCABINET", "FRONT DOOR TRACK",
and "KITCHEN TRACKS"
Button C: Nothing
Button D: Nothing
Button Off: Turns off eating area light.
4. No.
Thank you,
Rums.
Edited by rums - May 28 2009 at 22:39
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grif091
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| Posted: May 28 2009 at 23:22 | IP Logged
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Sorry about the confusion on the small button designation for a 6 button KPL. There was a time when the 4 small buttons came labeled C,D,E,F which matched the 8 button configuration labels. Even the old <1.4 user guide uses A,B,C,D so that is what I will use from now on.
For button B (group 4), you identified 3 devices which turn on but there are 4 links identified as responders in your screen post. The first responder link under Group 1 and the first responder link under Group 4 should be deleted. Both of these links refer to other buttons on the same KPL, and they should not be there. Drag each of those links to the Device List on the left side. Click Save and those links should be scheduled for removal.
The fact that the KITCHEN TRACKS turns on with button B but do not turn on with the ON button suggests a problem with the link records for the ON button, either in the KPL or the SwitchLinc controlling the KITHCHEN TRACKS.
After you have successfully deleted the two responder links that should not be there, click Rebuild while the KPL is the currently selected device, and then click Rebuild while the KITCHEN TRACKS SwitchLinc is the current device. These will schedule PH to rewrite the link records in both devices. You should see the progress of these operations in the upper display of Insteon Explorer.
All links show "Verified" in the PH database which would normally indicate that all the link records are there but if one button will control the SwitchLinc as a responder but another button on the same device will not the most probable cause is a missing link record in one of the two devices.
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Lee G
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rums
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| Posted: May 29 2009 at 11:00 | IP Logged
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Lee,
Thanks again so much for your concise post. I'll give the changes a go later today and report back here.
Rums.
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rums
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| Posted: May 29 2009 at 20:17 | IP Logged
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Hi Lee,
There's been some progress! First, the screenshot with the update KPL links as per your last message:
Here's what's happening:
ON button: The Eating Area lights (the ones attached to the load of the KPL) and the 'KITCHEN TRACS' are coming on together.
A button: Nothing
B button: KITCHEN UNDERCABINET, FRONT DOOR TRACK, AND KITCHEN TRACS turn on.
C button: Nothing
D button: Nothing
OFF button: shuts the eating area lights (load on the KPL) as well as KITCHEN TRACKS off.
We're *almost* where I want to be. I would like the functionality that (thanks to you) I now have with the 'ON' button to be assigned to the 'A' button. The 'ON' button should only be for the attached KPL load light (the light attached to EATING AREA KEYPAD).
So, to reiterate, this is what I'm after:
ON button: turn on only the light attached to the EATING AREA KEYPAD KPL (whose load is the eating area lights)
A button: Turn on both the eating area lights (again, the group 1 load of the KPL) *and* KITCHEN TRACS.
B button: leave as is
C button: leave as is
D button: leave as is
OFF button: Turn off the KPL load light (eating area lights)
Sheesh...hope that makes sense. Let me know if you need any more info. I'm sure it's just one tiny thing missing but I've again tried a few different methods and it just isn't going.
Thanks again,
Rums
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grif091
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| Posted: May 29 2009 at 21:07 | IP Logged
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Controlling the KPL primary load from a KPL secondary button on the same device is available in later KPL firmware versions. Follow the link to the Smarthome Wiki for information on setting up this function. It is not done with link record manipulation as far as I know so you will have to set that part up using the Wiki instructions. There have been some posts to the effect that a secondary button cannot completely turn On or Off the primary load. I don't remember which case it is. Searching the Smarthome forum should provide that answer. This has nothing to do with PH so all the answers will have to come from the Smarthome forum or Wiki.
http://wiki.smarthome.com/index.php?title= KeypadLinc_Firmwar e_Revision
As far as no longer controlling the Kitchen Tracks from the ON/OFF buttons, simply drag/drop the responder link for the Kitchen Tracks SwitchLinc in KPL Group 1 (ON/OFF button group) to the Device List and PH will delete that link. Just as you deleted the other two links. Once the link is deleted the ON/OFF buttons will control the local load only.
EDIT: there is a space in the URL to the Wiki in the word Firmware which I have not been successful in removing. Copy the link and paste it directly into the browser.
EDIT2: if anyone following this topic is aware of a PH technique to set up a secondary button to control the primary load on the "SAME" KPL, please jump in.
Edited by grif091 - May 29 2009 at 21:59
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Lee G
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grif091
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| Posted: May 30 2009 at 14:35 | IP Logged
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I can confirm with a firsthand test that "linking" a secondary KPL button to the primary load on the same KPL does not use the link database. I factory reset a 1.65 KPL dimmer, "linked" secondary button A to the primary load, and secondary button A does turn On and Off the primary load, just as the ON and OFF buttons do. Displayed the link database and it was empty.
Linked an ICON switch to secondary button A. Now secondary button A controls the primary KPL load and the ICON switch. The link database in the KPL contains the "controller of" link record for the ICON switch as the only link record.
Deleted text as incorrect.
EDIT: Thanks again Dave. That is the second time in as many days that I have made a wrong comment about PH capability. Time to stop.
Edited by grif091 - May 30 2009 at 18:03
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Lee G
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dhoward
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| Posted: May 30 2009 at 17:42 | IP Logged
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For intra-button linking on a KPL, you need to use the "KPL Config" tab of the Insteon Explorer. You'll place a check under button 3 in the LED On box of "1" as shown in the picture below: 
Button 3 is the equivalent of Button "A" on a 6 button KPL. Once you do this and save, then Button "A" will control whatever it is linked to as well as the main load.
HTH,
Dave.
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Topic: KPL Load -- possible?
